Police: Recruiting from Universities (Hansard, 10 July 2000)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)
My Lords, I understand that there have been exploratory discussions between the Police National Training College and two universities about the possibility of accrediting courses in detection and investigation of crime. However, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary awaits firm proposals. Any degree courses would require validation by a degree awarding body. We welcome the partnership between universities and employers in designing vocational degree courses which meet the needs of specific industries.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Does she agree that while detectives in fiction have not been short of intellectual erudition—for example, Sherlock Holmes, Poirot and Maigret, although Inspector Clouseau must be excluded since the little grey cells were not working for him—the detective's role in police forces is not highly regarded? Unfortunately it does not seem to lead to the higher ranks.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his extensive knowledge of crime fiction. It is difficult for me to comment on the status of different categories of employment in the police force. However, I believe that training is extremely important in the difficult area of investigatory work. The Government are delighted that the National Police College at Bramshill is thinking about extending and developing this training, in particular for serving police officers of senior rank.

§ Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate
My Lords, does the Minister agree that while academic excellence in any area is to be welcomed, we also need practical expertise? One recent problem, if I may draw on my experience over many years as a detective, has been the policy of tenure in police forces whereby police officers in the CID, for example, are rotated after a fixed period of three or five years with no account taken of their experience and ability. As a result, the concept of a career detective is destroyed. Does the noble Baroness agree that that is to the disadvantage of crime detection? It leads, for example, to the Metropolitan Police advertising for retired detectives to return on short-term contracts.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, expertise in any area is extremely important. Expertise in an area of this kind is time consuming to develop and build up. Where it has been acquired I share my noble friend's 8 view that it is a pity if people are then moved on to quite different duties where they are unable to use that important expertise.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, are the Home Office and individual police forces making enough effort to recruit graduates into the police force? We need a well-educated police force to combat modern crime. In the past, there have been prejudices in individual police forces against the graduate recruit, something which joined-up government should discourage.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. There is now much scope, with larger numbers of young people and mature students going to university, for increasing the recruitment of graduates into the police force. A number of police forces run programmes for serving officers to acquire degrees while they are members of the police force. That again is greatly to be welcomed. A course for a BA in Police Management has been validated by Sheffield University. It is run by Merseyside Police for their serving officers. We greatly welcome more of that joined-up thinking between individual police forces and universities.

§ Lord Cope of Berkeley
My Lords, following the question on practical experience from the noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie, will university degree courses be one of the matters on which the noble Lord, Lord Birt, will advise the Government?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Birt, will advise the Government about all aspects of dealing with crime by young people, including the training of police officers.

§ Lord Harrison
My Lords, does the Minister support the proposals made in the European Voice last week for the establishment of a European police college to help police throughout the European Union combat cross-border crime, terrorism and other problems arising from the establishment of the single European market?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I am sure that that is a matter my right honourable friend the Home Secretary will want to consider.

§ Lord Pilkington of Oxenford
My Lords, the Minister exalts graduation. While it would not be incumbent on me to deplore the value of graduation, which has seen me through a life, does the noble Baroness believe that the practical skills of the policeman on the beat working up through the profession should be given more regard?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, the practical skills of the policemen on the beat are invaluable. However, as young policemen are promoted and work their way up through the ranks, there are different needs. While on the beat, they will not have had experience of the investigation of serious crime and will require further training in order to acquire the necessary skills and expertise.