HL Deb 05 July 2000 vol 614 cc1568-72

(" .—(1) Schedule 4 to the 1986 Act shall apply to an electricity distributor as it applies to a gas transporter as if, in each place where they occur, for the words "gas transporter there were substituted "electricity distributor". (2) Schedule 4 to the 1989 Act shall apply to a gas transporter as it applies to an electricity distributor as if, in each place where they occur, for the words "electricity distributor" there were substituted "gas transporter".

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, this amendment seeks to give gas transporters or electricity distributors the right to install the infrastructure of the other utility subject only to the same limitations placed on that other utility. The amendment does not seek to enlarge existing powers but merely to enlarge the number of entities capable of exercising them. In this case, it would be the owner or occupier, often a developer, who will be able to decide who shall enjoy these rights.

The Minister will be pleased to hear that this is essentially a probing amendment to gauge the Government's thinking in this area, given that our overriding interests are to save costs as well as to be expedient about the manner in which those works are carried out. I beg to move.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for explaining the amendment. Perhaps I may explain the fundamental underlying differences between the gas and electricity provisions with regard to street works. In gas there is a duty on the gas transporter to connect anyone within 23 metres of a gas main. That is an absolute duty and means that there have to be corresponding powers to enable gas transporters to fulfil their duty.

In electricity there is a duty to connect any person on request, subject to questions of practicality and cost which are reflected in the terms offered for the making of a connection, rather than an absolute right within a prescribed distance of an established part of the electricity distribution network. We believe that it is reasonable to insist that in the 21st century everyone should be able to have access to electricity but it would not make sense to require a transporter to put in several miles of gas main to service one customer in a remote location.

Turning to the detail of the proposed new clause, if it is designed to align the regimes governing street works under the Gas Act and the Electricity Act by making electricity distributors subject to obligations under the Gas Act and vice versa, this is inappropriate because each Act deals with a defined subject area; namely, gas on the one hand and electricity on the other.

If the amendment is designed to assist those who are active in both the gas and electricity markets, it is misguided. A company which is both an electricity distributor and a gas transporter will have appropriate rights under the Electricity Act 1989 and the Gas Act 1986 which he should use according to which activity necessitates the street works. If both of them necessitate street works, he will need to exercise rights under both Acts. However, that should not create any problems for a company.

I should point out that there are other difficulties with the amendment. For example, if the amendment is made workable, there will be a potential for companies to use one Act to exercise rights and, when this proves unsuccessful, to attempt to use the other Act as a way forward. Granting rights under Schedule 4 to the Electricity Act to gas transporters could result in them having more extensive rights to land belonging to third parties than is presently the case.

On either interpretation of the amendment, it is inappropriate and could lead to damaging rather than helpful consequences.

Baroness Buscombe

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response and for his clear explanation of the Government's approach here. I shall read Hansard and consider carefully what he has said. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Schedule 6 [Minor and consequential amendments]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendments Nos. 93 to 103: Page 132, line 14, at end insert ("; and (c) at the end of paragraph (b) there is inserted "; and— (c) to any other person who holds a licence and whose interests may, in the opinion of the Authority, be affected by the grant. In section 15A (billing disputes)—

  1. (a) for "domestic customer" (in each place) there is substituted "customer";
  2. (b) subsection (10) shall cease to have effect.").
Page 132, line 15, leave out paragraphs 7 and 8 and insert—
  1. (" .—(1) Section 24 (modification references to Competition Commission) is amended as follows.
  2. (2) In subsection (1)(a)(i) and subsection (1A)(a), for "required" there is substituted "regulated".
  3. (3) In subsection (6) for "4 and 4A(1) and (2) above" there is substituted "4AA, 4AB and 4A".
  4. (4) In subsection (8) for "and 26 below" there is substituted ", 26 and 26A.
 In section 27(3) and (4) (modification by order under other enactments) for "required" there is substituted "regulated"."). Page 132, line 21, leave out ("inserted") and insert ("substituted"). Page 132, line 30, at end insert ("33C,""). Page 133, line 5, at end insert— (" .In section 36(2) (keeping of register), in paragraph (c)—
  1. (a) the words "made otherwise than by order" shall be omitted; and
  2. (b) for "subsection (5)" there is substituted "subsection (7)"").
 Page 133, line 12, at end insert— ("() after the definition of "authorised area" there is inserted—
  • "authorised supplier" means a person authorised by a licence or exemption to supply to any premises gas which has been conveyed to those premises through pipes;
  • "authorised transporter" means a person authorised by a licence or exemption to convey gas through pipes to any premises or to a pipe-line system operated by a gas transporter.").
 Page 133, line 14, after ("6A;";") insert— ("() the definition of "domestic customer" shall be omitted;"). Page 134, line 39, after ("40A,") insert ("42,"). Page 136, line 23, at end insert—
  1. (" .—(1) Section 44A (billing disputes) is amended as follows.
  2. (2) In subsection (2)—
    1. (a) for "a public electricity supplier" there is substituted "an electricity supplier";
    2. (b) for "tariff customer" there is substituted "customer".
  3. (3) In subsection (8)—
    1. (a) for "public electricity supplier" there is substituted "electricity supplier";
    2. (b) for "tariff customer- there is substituted "customer".
 Page 136, line 23, at end insert— (" . In section 59 (making of false statements etc.) in subsection (2)(a), for "a public electricity supplier" there is substituted ", or other person acting on behalf of, an electricity distributor or electricity supplier Page 137, line 12, at end insert— ("Rights of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954 (c. 21)
  1. .—(1) The Rights of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954 is amended as follows.
  2. (2) In section 1(2) (restriction on exercise of rights), for "a public electricity supplier" there is substituted "an electricity operator".
  3. (3) In section 2(1) (warrants)—
    1. (a) for paragraph (a) there is substituted—
      1. "(a) that admission to premises specified in the information is reasonably required by a gas operator or an electricity operator or by an employee of a gas operator or an electricity operator;"; and.
    2. (b) for the words "supplier or any employee of the operator or supplier" (in paragraph (b) and the words following paragraph (c)) there is substituted "any employee of the operator".
  4. (4) In section 2(3) for "a public electricity supplier" there is substituted "an electricity operator".
  5. (5) In section 3 (interpretation)—
    1. (a) in the definition of "employee", for paragraph (b) there is substituted—
      1. "(b) in relation to an electricity operator, an officer, servant or agent of the operator and any person authorised by such an agent";
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    2. (b) for the definition of "public electricity supplier" there is substituted—
      • ""electricity operator" means an electricity distributor or an electricity supplier (within the meaning of Part I of the Electricity Act 1989);".").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 7 [Transitional provisions and savings]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendments Nos. 104 to 123: Page 139, line 13, leave out sub-paragraph (7) and insert— ("(7) The same associate may not be nominated both for the purpose of sub-paragraph (6)(a) and for the purpose of subparagraph (3)(a) or (b) or (6)(b)."). Page 140, line 33, leave out ("this paragraph") and insert ("paragraph 1"). Page 141, line 9, leave out ("9") and insert ("7"). Page 141, line 22, leave out from ("by") to end of line 24 and insert ("sub-paragraph (2); and (b) to the extent mentioned in those provisions as so modified;"). Page 141, line 43, leave out ("sub-paragraph (2)(a)") and insert ("sub-paragraphs (1) and (2)"). Page 142, line 16, leave out ("commencement day") and insert ("effective date"). Page 142, line 42, leave out ("commencement day") and insert ("effective date"). Page 143, line 1, leave out ("commencement day") and insert ("effective date"). Page 143, line 32, after ("(2)") insert ("of the 1989 Act"). Page 143, line 33, leave out from ("2") to end of line. Page 143, line 45, at end insert— ("() A scheme under this paragraph shall have no effect in relation to an existing supply licence if the supplier's transfer scheme does not take effect."). Page 144, line 2, leave out from ("scheme") to ("which") and insert ("under this paragraph in relation to existing licences under section 6(1)(c) of the 1989 Act"). Page 144, line 6, at beginning insert— ("(1A) A scheme under this paragraph shall provide for each licence to which it relates"). Page 144, line 14, after ("6(1)(c)") insert ("of the 1989 Act"). Page 144, line 19, leave out ("under section 6(1)(d)"). Page 144, line 23, after ("6(2)") insert ("of the 1989 Act"). Page 144, line 26, leave out ("under section 6(1)(d)"). Page 144, line 45, after ("expedient;") insert— ("() such amendments relating to the revocation of the licence or exemption as the Secretary of State thinks fit;"). Page 145, line 22, after ("expedient;") insert— ("() such amendments relating to the revocation of the licence as the Secretary of State thinks fit;"). Page 145, line 47, after ("expedient;") insert— ("() such amendments relating to the revocation of the licence as the Secretary of State thinks fit;").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, these amendments are all of a technical and drafting nature. If the House is satisfied, I shall not offer a detailed explanation on each one. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 8 [Repeals]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendments Nos. 124 to 129: Page 152, line 6, column 3, at end insert ("and in subsection (9), the word "and" preceding paragraph (b)"). Page 152, line 12, column 3, at end insert— ("Section 15A(10).") Page 152, line 36, column 3, after ("subsections") insert ("(3),"). Page 152, line 44, column 3, after ("(a)") insert (", in paragraph (c) the words "made otherwise than by order""). Page 152, line 50, column 3, at end insert ("and the definition of "domestic customer""). Page 153, line 49, column 3, after ("subsections") insert ("(3),").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 108 [Power to make transitional provision etc.]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 130: Page 118, line 13, leave out from ("enactment:") to end of line 14 and insert ("contained in any Act or subordinate legislation (including an enactment contained in this Act or in any Act passed or subordinate legislation made in the same Session as this Act).";).

On Question, amendment agreed to.

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