§ Lord Phillips of Sudburyasked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether, when consideration is being given to closure of a court, they will require an estimate to be made of the extra travel costs and time to its users of having to attend a more distant alternative.
§ The Lord Chancellor (Lord Irvine of Lairg)My Lords, the noble Lords Question suggests that the Government take court closure decisions. That is not true of magistrates' court closures, which I believe are the noble Lord's principal concern. Magistrates' court premises are not government property; they are provided by local authorities. Decisions as to whether to close them Exe taken locally by the relevant Magistrates' Courts Committee (the MCC), not the Government. The role of the Lord Chancellor is only that the local paying authorities have a right of appeal to him against closure. Travel considerations are important factors, among others, that are taken into account in the local decision as to whether to close.
§ Lord Phillips of SudburyMy Lords, although the noble and learned Lord has stated the arrangements, does he agree that none the less it is very much in the interests of justice in this country that magistrates' courts are where people need them? If the noble and learned Lord cannot at present take much of a hand in decisions as to closure, will he consider exerting his influence in future in view of the importance of magistrates' courts?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, not every magistrates' court deserves a preservation society. Most of the magistrates' court closures in recent years took place because their facilities were substandard or because they were satellite courts, for example parts of local council chambers which lacked essential facilities: secure accommodation; waiting areas for victims and witnesses away from defendants; consultation rooms; and access for the disabled. There was insufficient local demand for some courts. Some courts lacked reasonable staff accommodation or were unsound for structural reasons which were uneconomic to rectify. There is a huge variety of distinct reasons for closure.
§ Viscount TenbyMy Lords, can the Lord Chancellor tell the House what progress, if any, is being made in consultations between his department and the Magistrates' Association in issuing national guidelines 386 to assist those members of magistrates' courts committees who have the difficult and delicate task of coming to a decision on whether or not a court should close?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, comprehensive guidance has been issued by the Central Council of Magistrates' Courts Committees. That guidance addresses all the factors that competent MCCs will address when considering closures. I have endorsed that guidance. Typically, in deciding appeals against closures I consider: the quality of existing courthouses and the facilities that they offer; the level of work currently handled; accessibility for all court users: and the extra distance that some users may have to travel to attend court and the time taken to complete the relevant return journey.
§ Lord Janner of BraunstoneMy Lords, will my noble and learned friend tell the House the number of appeals, and their percentage, against closure of magistrates' courts that have come before him and been allowed since he became Lord Chancellor?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, since becoming Lord Chancellor in May 1997 there have been 48 appeals against the closure of magistrates' courts. Most closure decisions taken by MCCs reflect a well-judged assessment of the needs of their areas. Therefore, most appeals fail but four have succeeded. I respect, but do not rubber-stamp, local decisions. By contrast, only two appeals were allowed in the five years between 1992 and 1st May 1997.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, can the noble and learned Lord provide some information about the future of Horseferry Road Magistrates' Court, bearing in mind that it is a purpose-built court and that Marlborough Street, which is part of South Westminster Bench, has already been closed?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, that is a detailed question to which I prefer to reply in writing, if I may.
Lord Carlile of BerriewMy Lords, in considering any proposals for the closure of Crown Courts in north and mid-Wales and Cheshire, for which the noble and learned Lord is responsible, will he bear in mind the frequent exchange of cases between courts in those areas, the very sound partnership which has existed there for many decades and, in that context, the continuing value of the Wales and Chester circuit?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, I am well aware of all those considerations. Currently, there are no proposals to close any Crown Court centre.
§ Lord Mackenzie of FramwellgateMy Lords, does my noble and learned friend agree that one way to stem the closure of magistrates' courts is to provide them with far more work by reducing the number of cases that go to the Crown Court for trial?
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, from one standpoint the Criminal Justice (Mode of Trial) Bill to 387 which my noble friend refers underscores the confidence of government in the quality of justice provided by magistrates.
§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne DomerMy Lords, can the noble and learned Lord explain the Government's thinking on access to services for rural dwellers? I believe that the Government encourage the health service and GPs to use premises such as village halls, which may not be perfect, for surgeries. However, perfect accommodation seems paramount in the legal service. When 75 per cent of parishes still do not have a daily bus service, a local service must surely count for more than the perfection of the accommodation.
§ The Lord ChancellorMy Lords, such considerations are taken into account. The typical distance and travelling time being set by MCCs are within 20 miles of population centres and one hour's travelling time for the majority of the population. However, noble Lords will wish due weight to be given to the need to have modern courts with modern facilities, with secure arrangements for witnesses and victims and access for the disabled.