HL Deb 13 December 2000 vol 620 cc358-9

2.44 p.m.

Lord Hardy of Wath asked the Chairman of Committees:

How many rooms are to become available for the use of Peers as a result of the provision of additional offices for Members of the House of Commons.

The Chairman of Committees (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)

My Lords, the House of Commons intends to hand over five rooms to this House in February 2001. Your Lordships will also be aware that desks for 75 Peers became available on 1st December in 7 Little College Street. Next summer, approximately 200 more desks will become available in Millbank House, the Palace itself and 7 Old Palace Yard.

Lord Hardy of Wath

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his appointment and thank him for his reply, not least since he has had remarkably little time in which to consider the issue.

However, does the noble Lord recall the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, on the debate on the Address last week about the length of sittings and the question posed by my noble friend Lord Graham when he asked which was the part-time House? Does he not consider that many of us would be happier to have a share of a desk in the main building rather than in a distant building, especially as many of us are getting older and that we find the distance and the traffic on the road rather dangerous?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, I may be answering from this Dispatch Box, but I am not responsible for what the Government do about their legislative programme. I fully understand the point which the noble Lord makes about the advantages of having a desk in this building rather than having to go outside to another building, especially in view of the kind of autumn that we have had. Of course, there are limitations on the number of people that we can squeeze into the Palace of Westminster, but I very much hope that those Peers who venture out of doors to their desk will be those who are happy to do so, given the accommodation then to be found.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord the Minister—

Noble Lords

Oh!

Lord Avebury

My Lords, the noble Lord really looks as though he is to the manor born! Has the noble Lord given consideration to asking the other place to let us have back the Pugin Room?

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Avebury

My Lords, so that we can exile smokers from the Library there?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, there are two issues there: the first relates to the difficult question of smokers, and I suspect that that will continue to haunt me, so to speak; the other relates to the Pugin Room. I am not entirely sure how willing the House of Commons would be to give back the Pugin Room or anything else it has. I am sure that the noble Lord remembers being in the other place, as I do. He may agree with me that we should not hold out too much hope that the other place may take a reasonable view of our requests.

Lord Islwyn

My Lords, does the Minister recall that some years ago a large block of offices in the Lords' precincts were handed over to the Commons for its uses? Is that block of offices now to be handed back to the Lords and, if so, when?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, I am almost embarrassed by the number of times that noble Lords have referred to me as a Minister. I rather take it that that shows the view they have of their colleagues on these Benches.

I believe that the noble Lord is referring to the offices on the Upper Committee Corridor South. I have had a fairly brief opportunity to look into this matter and I should tell the noble Lord that those offices were constructed in the roof of the Palace in the 1960s specifically for the use of MPs. They never belonged to the House of Lords. The air space may have belonged to the House of Lords but that would be a difficult argument to have with the other place.

Lord Waddington

My Lords, does the noble Lord recall on what basis the Pugin Room was originally handed over to the Commons? Perhaps it was handed over only on a temporary basis. Judging by the carpet, it looks as though it really belongs to us.

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, if it was handed over on a temporary basis, it was done in 1906, and in 1906 the Pugin Room was exchanged for Committee Room 4.