Disability Discrimination Act: Exempted Employers (Hansard, 11 December 2000)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)
My Lords, just over 116,000 firms and other employers such as public bodies are covered by the DDA employment provisions. There are just over 1.2 million firms which are excluded as a result of the small employer exemption threshold. Over 75 per cent of disabled employees are covered, as most employees work for large employers.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that response, but is she aware that there is no justification for excluding any firms from the employment provisions of the DDA because to do so simply enables them to discriminate legally against disabled workers, which cannot be right? Is she aware that the only feeble argument used by some small employers is that they will suffer unreasonable burdens? However, as my noble friend is aware, the Act specifically states that only reasonable provision should be made. Therefore that argument is absolutely bogus. Why cannot we include all firms immediately with no nonsense about phasing in?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I am familiar with the strong feelings on this matter of my noble friend Lord Ashley. Everyone in this House is sympathetic to disabled people and opposes discrimination against them. However, we have asked the Disability Rights Commission to consider this matter. It is currently 94 giving us advice on how and when to lower the threshold further. It is right that the Government, having set up the DRC, should wait for that advice.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the reasons given in the past for exempting small firms no longer apply? For example, the quota scheme was replaced in 1995. Have the Government recently consulted the Federation of Small Businesses, because I understand that its views on this matter have changed?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I am delighted to hear that that is the case. My department has produced a good practice guide for employers which contains specific advice for smaller employers tailored to them. The Government want to listen to the views of employers, large and small, on this matter. However, if the Federation of Small Businesses is now happy to see the exemption removed, the Government will, of course, take that in to account.

§ Lord Morris of Manchester
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that it does not help to persuade private sector employers to increase job opportunities for disabled people if big public sector employers fail in their duties to them? Has she seen today's tragic announcement that Rehab UK's Greater Manchester Brain Injury Vocational Centre now faces closure in April, notwithstanding its huge success in enabling victims of serious road accidents and of the "yob" culture to return to work, because only three of the conurbation's 10 councils have agreed to pay their share of the cost?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, the Government are aware of the excellent work that Rehab UK has carried out in Manchester helping the recovery of people who have suffered traumatic brain injury. As I understand it, the Department of Health is providing a grant for that organisation. It will be possible for it to bid for further funding from the New Deal for disabled people. I very much hope that it will do so. We shall consider the position with regard to local authority support, but, in the end, that is a matter for local authorities.

§ Lord Marsh
My Lords, can the Minister give any indication of the cost of the number of people who will be needed to impose this level of bureaucracy on this vast multitude of small companies?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, it is not a matter of imposing a level of bureaucracy but rather of bringing small firms with fewer than 15 employees within the employment provisions of the DDA. That should be capable of being achieved without bureaucracy. There will be some costs in relation to making it possible for people with certain kinds of disability to work in some contexts. However, the access to work scheme which is funded by the Government will provide extensive 95 financial support for small companies which are moving in this direction, as the Government hope that they will.

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, do the Government agree that under the EU framework directive on employment they are required to eliminate the threshold? What plans do they have to do so?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. It has been agreed by all member states of the EU that eventually there should be no threshold of this kind in any member country. The Government, like all other member countries, are committed to putting this in to practice no later than the year 2006. However, as I said to my noble friend Lord Ashley of Stoke, further discussions are continuing with the Disability Rights Commission to decide the timetable to institute this change.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, I am sorry to come back on the issue, but we are talking about a minor measure to prevent discrimination against disabled people. Does my noble friend agree that to say that it imposes bureaucracy on the poor employers is to play nonsense with the English language and betrays a misunderstanding of what the Act is all about?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I entirely accept what my noble friend has said. As I have already said, I do not think that it is a matter of imposing bureaucracy; we are asking all firms, small and large, not to discriminate against disabled people.

§ Lord Marsh
My Lords, to clear the matter up, does the Minister agree that there is no point in having the regulations without them being monitored?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, of course we should monitor and make sure that people accept the changes, but disabled people would have access to the courts if the new requirements were not accepted.