HL Deb 20 April 2000 vol 612 cc817-9

11.16 a.m.

Lord Dholakia

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What are their plans for the future role of HM Chief Inspector of Prisons.

Lord Bach

My Lords, the role of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons is defined by statute in Section 5A of the Prison Act 1952, which was inserted by Section 57 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982. Her Majesty's Government have no plans to alter the Chief Inspector's statutory role.

Lord Dholakia

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that it is not his intention to combine the prisons and probation inspectorates? It may help to promote joint work. But does he accept that we do not require a seamless, joined-up approach to inspectorates in the criminal justice system? Does he also accept that the high profile of prison inspectorates under successive governments has played a vital role in pressing the need for prison reforms and that any change in this matter would adversely affect public confidence? Does he further accept that any changes in such an inspectorate ought to be based on the merits of the argument and not on making Ministers' lives easier by getting rid of highly effective and outspoken chief inspectors?

Lord Bach

My Lords, the Government are committed to exposing public services to vigorous scrutiny to ensure that high standards are achieved and maintained. As part of the wider context of our determination to reduce crime it is well known that we are looking at closer working between the Prison and Probation Services. This will be important for the relevant inspectorates, but no decisions have yet been taken as to the nature of changes that may be necessary. It is appreciated that the role of Chief inspector of Prisons is an independent and valued one.

Lord Ackner

My Lords, will the Minister identify for the benefit of the House those major recommendations of Her Majesty's Inspector which the Government have failed to carry out to date?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I am not in a position to give an exact answer to the noble and learned Lord's question. However, it is perhaps worth remembering that the inspector has made a large number of good reports on various prison establishments and that those outweigh the reports which are not so good. In recent months Pentonville, Werrington, Ashwell, Brockhill and Feltham have received largely positive reports. There is every reason to hope that Altcourse, Lowdham Grange and Buckley Hall will follow that positive trend. In that same period only three bad reports were published: on Dorchester, Rochester and Portland.

Lord Cope of Berkeley

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the leak on Tuesday which suggested that the chief inspector's title was going to be changed to an appalling one such as "Inspector of Corrections" is rubbish, as is the leak that he seemed to be foreshadowing in his Answer on Monday?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I do not think I was foreshadowing any leak in the Answer that I gave on Monday. As part of the wider context of our determination to reduce crime, we are looking at closer working relations between the Prison and the Probation Services. No decisions—I repeat, no decisions—have yet been taken as to how this will be reflected in the structure and working of the inspectorate.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, is the Minister aware that many of us would welcome closer relations between the Prison and the Probation Services? Notwithstanding that, however, is he further aware that there would be fierce opposition to any attempt by Ministers to downgrade the independence of the Chief Inspector of Prisons? We value his independent reports and there would be very strong opposition in the House if any attempt was to be made in the future to change the character of that appointment.

Lord Bach

My Lords, like the noble Lord, the Government see a robust, independent inspectorate as having an essential role in identifying bad practice and in promoting good, constructive work in prisons.

Lord Lucas

My Lords, does the Minister agree that one of the persistent criticisms made by the chief inspector relates to the short average term in office of prison governors and area managers? I believe that the figure is about two years. The chief inspector and many others feel that a more desirable average would be between five and seven years? Do the Government have plans to improve this situation?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I attempted to answer this question on Monday. Yes, we do see a problem in terms of governors moving on. In some cases that cannot be avoided, but we are doing our best to ensure that it does not happen on quite such a regular basis.

Lord Cope of Berkeley

My Lords, I apologise to the House for coming back to this matter. I thought that the noble Lord said in answer to the original Question that there was no intention to change the role of the Chief Inspector of Prisons, or for that matter of the Probation Service, but subsequently he seemed to say that no decisions had yet been taken. That is a different emphasis. Can the noble Lord help the House on this matter?

Lord Bach

My Lords, the noble Lord has misunderstood me. There are no plans to alter the chief inspector's statutory role. At the same time—this is not inconsistent—I am informing the House of something that it already knows: that we are sensibly looking at closer working relations between the Prison and the Probation Services.

Lord Acton

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the current Chief Inspector of Prisons is not only robust and independent but has done a very fine job indeed?

Lord Bach

My Lords, it is an absolute delight to answer that question from my noble friend. The answer is yes.