HL Deb 26 October 1999 vol 606 cc162-4

3.2 p.m.

Lord Dormand of Easington

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What advantages will arise from payments by results when remunerating teachers.

The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)

My Lords, the Government's Green Paper, Teachers: meeting the challenge of change, proposed a major change in teachers' remuneration. This will not be crude payment by results but promotion related to excellence. We offer the prospect of higher pay for high-performing teachers. We want to realise the full potential of our schools, and recruit and motivate talented teachers, as part of our drive to raise standards in schools.

Lord Dormand of Easington

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that informative Answer. Even in the circumstances she has just described, is she aware that the role of the teacher, while of great importance, is one aspect only of a child's learning process? Other aspects of that process are outside the control of the education system—for example, home circumstances and other aspects. Is she further aware that the teaching profession is largely opposed to what is being proposed and that to proceed with such an important matter without its full co-operation would be very unwise?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I agree fully with my noble friend that all kinds of factors affect the performance of children in schools, including their home circumstances. In the second part of his plementary question he said that the teaching profession is opposed to these new changes. We believe that it is coming round to seeing the advantage of the Government's proposals. They will provide new opportunities for talented and successful teachers to earn considerably more than in the past. It is right to reward success. In doing so, it will contribute to better results in our schools, to better teaching and to higher performance by pupils.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, how many assessors will he needed to assess the teachers and headteachers who will go over the threshold? What will that cost and what will be the cost of the supporting bureaucracy? Would it not be better to put faith in professional headteachers and governors of schools to determine the performance of their staff?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, the Government do put faith in headteachers and governors. Headteachers will play the crucial primary role in assessing which teachers should go over the threshold and earn considerably more. Headteachers will also be responsible—as they are now—for looking at the performance of those who have gone over the threshold. The Government think it right—and the teaching procession welcomes this—that some external assessors should be appointed to ensure comparability of standards between schools in what will be very substantial pay increases for those teachers who are successful.

Lord Quirk

My Lords, I take the points wisely made by the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington, but is it not the case that something has to be done in order to make the teaching profession more attractive to potential recruits of an enterprising disposition? Such people may be reluctant to step on a treadmill where the norms are seniority and "Buggins' turn".

I ask the House to note that for 50 years merit and distinction awards have been made in medicine to very good effect, not least in enabling medical schools to attract and retain the best of clinical teachers through handsome enlargements of salary.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Quirk. He is right to remind us that merit awards and various types of performance pay have been available in medicine and in a number of other professions. It is vital that we encourage the very best graduates from our universities and colleges to enter teaching. In order to do that, we have to make it absolutely clear that we will reward success; that those able graduates who enter the profession and do well will be much better paid than under the previous system. A further matter which is relevant to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Quirk, is that we will also be appointing advanced school teachers, who will have the job of providing leadership in the classroom. That will allow us to keep able members of the profession in the classroom rather than recruiting them out into administrative positions.

Baroness David

My Lords—

Earl Russell

My Lords—

The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Jay of Paddington)

My Lords, there will be time for both the noble Baroness and the noble Earl to ask their questions.

Baroness David

My Lords, does this measure give classroom teachers an opportunity to earn substantially more?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, in addition to the advanced skilled teachers I mentioned, there will be opportunities for the best classroom teachers to earn more than £35,000 a year. That is a very big increase. There will be no quota on threshold successes; funding will be available for every teacher who meets national threshold standards.

Earl Russell

My Lords, as a teacher—even if only in a university—I should declare an indirect interest in the Question. Is the Minister aware that many teachers believe that their duties are to their pupils as whole people, including their capacity for intellectual growth at later stages? Does the Minister agree that teachers may believe this duty conflicts with that of securing short-term exam results, and that payment by results, whether crude or sophisticated, risks being seen as contrary to their duty as they conceive it?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I really must knock on the head the myth that we are introducing payment by performance through crude examination results. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can assure the noble Earl that teachers will be assessed across a broad range of skills and that the progress of their pupils will be one of many elements that will be examined when assessing whether teachers deserve the very substantial increases that are on offer.

Lord Hardy of Wath

My Lords, will my noble friend mention comparability of standards? Will it be easier—

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, I apologise for intervening when my noble friend has risen to speak. However, I am in the hands of the House and I believe that we should move on.