HL Deb 21 October 1999 vol 605 cc1305-7

4.11 p.m.

Further considered on Report.

Schedule 16 [Hackney Carriages]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 475ZAA:

Page 267, line 16, at end insert—

("( ) Transport for London may send to the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis or the Commissioner of Police for the City of London—

  1. (a) details of a person to whom Transport for London is considering granting a licence under this section, and
  2. (b) a request for the Commissioner's observations; and the Commissioner shall respond to the request.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, with the leave of the House, before I speak to the amendment, it may be appropriate for me to take this opportunity to respond to the concern expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, at the start of business on Tuesday. He asked that the Delegated Powers and Deregulation Committee should have an opportunity to consider the amendments which the Government have tabled on Report. It is my understanding that the committee met yesterday and concluded that there was no need to draw any of our amendments to the attention of the House. I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Alexander of Weedon, has written to the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, to confirm that. Further, I should like to express my gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Alexander, and his committee for the speed and efficiency with which they have addressed this matter. We all recognise that there was considerable pressure on the committee. I am also grateful that it has presented us with a clean bill of health.

Lord Dixon-Smith

My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to thank the Minister and in particular to thank my noble friend, Lord Alexander of Weedon for so rapidly casting his eyes and those of his committee over what was an immense volume of work. I was pleased to receive a note from my noble friend and I am equally grateful for the Minister's assurance. I am delighted that the matter has been cleared speedily and amiably.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I turn now to the amendment before us. Amendment No. 475ZAA is a simple but important safety provision. It provides for criminal record checks on would-be taxi drivers. It ensures in particular that. Transport for London can ask the police for a criminal record check; and it requires the police to make such a check.

There is nothing new in this. It is already the practice for checks to be made, in London and elsewhere, and understandably so. It is surely right that people with convictions for crimes of violence or for sexual offences should not be taxi drivers when vulnerable members of the public are travelling alone in their charge.

The London taxi trade is regulated by the Public Carriage Office, which at present is part of the Metropolitan Police. For that reason, a criminal record check is straightforward. In future, the Public Carriage Office will be part of Transport for London, and separate from the police. We therefore need legal provision for those new circumstances. This amendment provides that and I commend it to the House. I beg to move.

Earl Attlee

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for explaining the amendment. Can he clarify one point? What will happen if the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police thinks it inappropriate for an applicant to be granted a licence? Does he rule that the licence will not be granted? I should be grateful to know the position on this matter.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the position will not change. The Public Carriage Office must take account of information received from the police. It will be a matter of judgment, but in normal circumstances, if a serious offence was involved, I am sure that the licence would not be issued.

Viscount Buckmaster

My Lords, will the Minister clarify one point for me? What is the difference between a hackney carriage and a minicab?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, hackney carriages can ply for hire and are covered by all the regulations that apply to cabs that have been cleared to ply for hire; a minicab must be requested and cannot ply for hire on the street. It may also be of interest to the noble Viscount to know that minicab drivers are already covered by a provision to allow for criminal record checks.

Viscount Buckmaster

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

4.15 p.m.

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 475A: Before Clause 225, insert the following new clause—