River Danube: Clearance (Hansard, 11 November 1999)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal)
My Lords, there has been no decision by the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation not to provide assistance for clearing the Danube while President Milosevic remains in power. Nor is there any decision in similar terms by any other organisation of which the United Kingdom is a member. The main obstacle to clearing the Danube remains President Milosevic's own policy of refusing to permit the wreckage to be removed unless the international community agrees to lift sanctions against Yugoslavia. Such demands are not acceptable to the international community.

§ Lord Grenfell
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that quite helpful Answer. Are the Government fully aware of the horrendous consequences that may flow if the debris is not removed? The ice that will form around it this winter will create natural dams which will cause extensive flooding in the region with possibly severe humanitarian disasters as a result.
Can the Minister assure us that if the European Union and others involved in NATO are not able or willing to mobilise the necessary technical and financial means to be able to solve the problem before winter arrives, they will consider the precedent set in 1956 when the United Nations, by resolution, mobilised an international salvage team to clear the Suez Canal effectively and efficiently?
Finally, does she agree that however much we may want to see the end of Mr Milosevic and his regime, maintaining the navigability of an international waterway of such importance must take precedence?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, perhaps I may say straightaway that we all totally agree that preserving the Danube is a matter of real importance. There is, of course, a major distinction between the action taken in Suez in 1956 and the position with which we are now faced as regards the Danube. In 1956 the Egyptians wanted such action; President Milosevic does not. That is a significant difference. We are aware, therefore, that that operation and the circumstances relating to it were very different.
1440 We are also aware of Hungary's fear, which is widespread, about flooding due to winter ice collecting on the wreckage. For the Danube Commission to assess the risks, Yugoslavia needs to honour its obligations. The primary responsibility for clearing the wreckage lies with Mr Milosevic. By taking no steps to do so, he is in breach of his obligations under the Danube conventions. He is refusing to allow the wreckage to be cleared until sanctions are lifted. As I told your Lordships' House, that is not acceptable to the international community.
Your Lordships' House should be aware that while Milosevic remains in power, Her Majesty's Government do not consider that assistance for reconstruction in Serbia is possible. However, clearing the wreckage is not reconstruction work. The EU could consider on their merits any detailed proposals that may come forward for clearing the Danube.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, does the Minister agree that apart from possible flooding, the damage caused by the wanton blocking of the Danube has affected Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Poland and even Belarus. The damage, therefore, has affected a far wider area than Serbia, which it was intended to intimidate in the first place.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, we accept that the potential for damage is wider. Your Lordships will be aware of the Stability Pact for South-East Europe. That pact indicates hope of support for all the regions mentioned by the noble Earl. The aid package currently in place, which will be funnelled through the stability pact, is considerable. I am sure your Lordships will be aware of the bilateral programmes we have through DFID. Six million pounds has been given to Romania, £4 million to Bulgaria and £2.5 million to Hungary. The EU support package is also considerable: 155 million euros for Romania, 105 million for Hungary and 50 million for Bulgaria. Her Majesty's Government, together with the EU, are conscious of the situation in which that region finds itself. They are looking at the total package and trying to have an holistic approach to the management of the problem.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, we appreciate that the United Kingdom is not a member of the Danube commission. My information is that the commission is meeting to discuss this matter today. Can the Minister also confirm that because of the timescale it is no longer possible to clear the wreckage before this winter is over? Can she reassure us that Her Majesty's Government will co-operate in whatever efforts there may be to mount a collective effort as soon as spring arrives? That will involve three or four months' planning ahead of time to mount a multilateral effort to clear this important waterway.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I can assure the House that this matter is being addressed with a great deal of energy. Our information to date is that it should take around four months and will cost 1441 approximately £14 million. The issues are being canvassed. The noble Lord is correct in relation to the timescale. We shall know shortly whether or not Yugoslavia intends to ameliorate her attitude and allow work to commence. There are hopeful signs. But we know from Mr Milosevic that those signs cannot be relied upon until they are consolidated in very firm terms.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House roughly what proportion of the damage to Danube bridges was done by bombers under the operational command of the NATO council, and, on the other hand, by B2 American bombers flying from the United States which were under American national command only?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I cannot. Indeed, with respect, it would be inappropriate for there to be such a distinction. We were allies. We took up arms together in order to defeat a regime which was systematically killing large numbers of people. We were right to do that. We were right to do it together and division at this stage is intolerable and unacceptable.

§ The Earl of Drogheda
My Lords, will the noble Baroness tell us whether, in view of the present situation in the Balkans, she considers that the war conducted there earlier this year was a success?

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, yes. Before I sit down perhaps I may take this opportunity to congratulate my noble friend Lord Grenfell on raising this question. He will be greatly missed for his sage counsel and his erudition.