Public Order Legislation (Hansard, 9 November 1999)

§ Lord Phillips of Sudbury
asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether, in the light of the policing of the state visit of the President of China, they will undertake a review of public order legislation and its enforcement.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bassam of Brighton)
My Lords, the Government believe that police powers contained in the Public Order Act 1986 and other legislation are sufficiently robust to meet the demands of situations of public disorder. Enforcement of legislation is an operational matter for chief officers of police. There are no plans to undertake a specific review at present, but we shall of course take account of any lessons to be learnt from the planned police review of the policing arrangements for the state visit.

§ Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, if one is to have an ethical foreign policy, one should practise what one preaches. Is the Minister sensitive to the fact that many in this House and beyond are extremely disturbed at the way in which the Public Order Act was enforced during the recent visit of the President of China? We all understand the difficulties the police face in enforcing this legislation. Can the Minister arrange that the results of the inquiry set in motion by Sir Paul Condon—I commend him for so doing—be made available to the House?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I remind the House that the policing of demonstrations and protests is an operational matter for chief officers of police, and that must be right. The noble Lord asks a reasoned and reasonable question. Clearly I cannot speak for the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, but I shall endeavour to pass on to him the views and questions of the noble Lord. My understanding is that the commissioner intends to make public his thoughtful conclusions as a result of the review he is undertaking of the operation during the recent state visit of the President of China.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, should not we uphold the principle that non-violent demonstrations of opinion should be protected in this country; otherwise, how can we expect to see it upheld in other countries?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. That is a long-cherished tradition in this country and one in which our Government believe fundamentally. We shall therefore do everything we can to uphold that. I am sure that all Members of your Lordships House will seek to protect that basic right.

§ Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate
My Lords, does my noble friend agree with me that in policing public order incidents there has always been a distinction between political protest and ceremonial events? Does he agree also that it is right that the police should be less tolerant of situations that arise where not only the security but also the dignity of the Royal Family are at stake?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, my noble friend makes a valuable and telling point. Of course, the police have difficult operational decisions to make and I am sure that they are right in seeking to protect members of the Royal Family and state visitors to this 1256 country. In doing so they must have careful and proper regard, as they did on this occasion, to the importance of public safety.

Viscount Astor
My Lords, is it not the case that during the recent visit there was a restriction of peaceful, public protest? Is it not also the case that the Government interfered and encouraged the police to take decisions which caused that restriction of peaceful, public protest? Is the Minister aware of the dismay with which that was received by politicians and democrats on all sides in Hong Kong?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, as I have explained two or three times already to the House, the policing of such events is an operational matter for the police. I am sure that the noble Viscount agrees with that. I am delighted that the noble Viscount agrees that there should be no interference in that process. We in this House are delighted also at his concern to protect the rights of protesters and demonstrators. I am sure that that is a view he has held for many years, perhaps going back over the lifetime of the previous government. We clearly need to reflect carefully on the commissioner's findings following his review of the way in which the operations were conducted during the recent state visit of the President of China.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that we should pay tribute to the performance of the police forces in this country in policing public order and ceremonial events? Bearing in mind the enormous difficulties the Chinese people faced in the first half of this century through civil war, invasion and natural disasters, the progress they have made in the past 50 years is a tribute to them. Will my noble friend therefore join me in paying tribute to the contribution that the Chinese community makes to the diversity and cultural experience of this country?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the answer to two of those questions is yes. I am not a Chinese historian, but I can agree that the Chinese have made great progress and are taking great strides. However, I am sure that they have much to learn from us, as we have much to learn from them.