HL Deb 04 May 1999 vol 600 cc546-7

2.53 p.m.

Lord Lucas of Chilworth asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether the practice whereby car hire firms refuse to hire cars to over-70 year-olds is contrary to United Kingdom or European legislation or any conventions to which the United Kingdom is a party.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

No, my Lords. Car hire firms would not be prevented from refusing to hire cars to individuals over 70 years of age by any UK or European legislation, or conventions to which the UK is a party. Informal inquiries have indicated that such a practice is by no means universal. Where it happens, it is a consequence of commercial decisions.

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, which is a little disappointing in that there is evidence of a growing practice among car hire companies of refusing to hire cars to those over 70 years of age and, where they do hire a car, enhancing the insurance premiums for those over the age of 70. Those companies are denying that group of people-they make up 39 per cent of motorists today and the percentage is increasing—the opportunity of relinquishing the use of their own motor car in order to use public transport or occasionally to use a hired motor car.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the Government are sympathetic to those who are denied the opportunity of car hire or who have to pay higher premiums. But even when this Government are widely being accused of being control freaks, we would be going a little far if we were to instruct insurers whom they had to insure and whom they did not insure. We would be entering the insurance business ourselves if we did that.

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood

My Lords, if these 70 year-olds have driving licences, is it not the case that they are likely to be insured anyway, so their insurance is not in any doubt? This seems to be a special discrimination on insurance. Is the noble Lord aware that, for example, visitors of this age group from the United States, where such a practice would be unheard of, are astounded to find that they are unable to hire a car in this country?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, under the Road Traffic Act 1988, the insurance which people of any age must legally have is only third party insurance. What the car hire companies and their insurers are presumably doing is protecting their property, which is the vehicle. As to the issue of visitors from the United States, I am not at all sure that I agree with the noble Baroness. When I first tried to get insurance for a car in the United States—I was under the age of 25—I found that only one insurance company in the whole of the state of Ohio was willing to give any insurance for the under 25s.

Lord Borrie

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, if there is an agreement between car hire firms not to hire out to those over 70 years of age, or indeed an informal arrangement to do that, or instead to charge higher insurance premiums to anyone over 70 years of age, that may be illegal under the Treaty of Rome and under the Competition Act of last year when it is implemented?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, since the Question was tabled we have been able to make only informal inquiries rather than carry out a full survey. But we are not aware of any agreement to deny opportunities to people over 70 years of age. If there were any such agreement, the Consumer Credit Act 1975 might also come into force and the Office of Fair Trading might have something to say about it. On the present information, we have no evidence that the law is being broken.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I declare a personal interest in this matter in that I am marginally over the age mentioned in the Question. I ask the Government to inquire whether, if this practice exists on any scale, the age discrimination Act might come into operation. It seems quite intolerable to me, as one whose no claims bonus is awarded every year, that people should be treated in this manner, particularly when they reach the age of wisdom.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I am delighted to find my noble friend paying tribute to Article XIII of the Amsterdam Treaty, which is the only age discrimination legislation we have in this country. It has not yet been ratified. Once it is, it will allow the European Commission to put forward proposals to combat discrimination. But of course it would be subject to unanimity. I am sure my noble friend will take steps to ensure that it is subject to qualified majority voting.

Lord Carver

My Lords, may I confirm that over the past 14 years I have suffered from this discrimination? I have found it very difficult to hire a car in Greece, Italy and several other European countries and have therefore adopted the habit of taking the car by Motorail. However, the number of places to which one can do that is limited.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the noble and gallant Lord makes it clear that this is not only a British problem. It is one which is properly addressed by the Treaty of Amsterdam. I am grateful to him for his comments.