HL Deb 13 July 1999 vol 604 cc168-9

2.57 p.m.

Lord Roberts of Conwy asked Her Majesty's Government:

What will be the ministerial complement of the Welsh Office after the Secretary of State has resigned his office to become the First Secretary of the National Assembly for Wales.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Williams of Mostyn)

My Lords, that is a matter for the Prime Minister who will make his decisions at the appropriate time.

Lord Roberts of Conwy

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. However, is it not already clear from exchanges in another place, in particular at Question Time on Wednesday last, and as a result of the Speaker's Statement yesterday, that the role in this Parliament of the Secretary of State for Wales and his Ministers is much reduced following the transfer of powers to the National Assembly for Wales on 1st July? Does the Minister agree that it is important that, like Scotland, Wales should continue to have a voice in Cabinet to safeguard the interests of Wales and to help preserve the unity of the United Kingdom?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, the noble Lord is right. It is an inevitable and foreseen desired consequence of the devolution settlement that the duties at Westminster of the Secretary of State for Wales will be reduced. Equally, I agree with the noble Lord that Welsh interests should be fully, coherently and eloquently represented here at Westminster. I understand from the "Today" programme this morning—it is always a useful source of information—that the present Secretary of State for Wales is intending to step down shortly to concentrate his formidable energies on his duties in Cardiff.

Lord Crickhowell

My Lords, was it not a foreseen consequence that once the devolution measure was through, Welsh Members of Parliament would not be able to ask Questions in the House of Commons about almost any of the issues which most concern their own constituents? Does it not follow that they will have little else to do but to make inquiries about England and help to interfere with the government of it? Will England be happy about that?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, my experience of English Members of Parliament and English hereditary Peers is that they are constantly very happy about most things. The Speaker made it perfectly plain that there are significant continuing areas where the Welsh Members of Parliament will have a proper function in questioning Welsh Ministers. There is no reason why that should not continue. A close scrutiny of what she said in another place yesterday would be quite valuable.

Lord Elton

My Lords, did the Minister read in yesterday's Hansard a reply to a Written Question about the management of a serious infestation of the bee population of England, Scotland and Wales which concluded with the comment that in future such matters in Scotland and Wales would be devolved and could not be answered in that way? Can the Minister tell us how anyone interested in such policy will be able to gain a picture of what is happening in the United Kingdom? That must be relevant, because if we had different policies on either side of the borders, the result would be no policy at all as regards the population of this country.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, I did not see the Question and its Answer because we were otherwise engaged here until about quarter to one this morning on the Immigration and Asylum Bill. I would respectfully and I hope helpfully ask the noble Lord to revisit what the Speaker said in another place. I believe that there are many Questions which are proper to be asked in the Westminster context following devolution. Returning to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, the foreseen consequences post-devolution were that some matters would be devolved and therefore would be the responsibility of the devolved Assembly and Parliament.

Lord Elton

My Lords, I hope that your Lordships will forgive me coming back, but my question related to this House and not another place, because we need to develop conventions here as to how to deal with this the difficult matter.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, I am sorry, there was a certain amount of extraneous noise and I plainly misheard the noble Lord's question. It is a matter for the House, but it seems to me that his question has point and purpose. With respect to the usual channels, it seems to be a matter that they should consider and develop.

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, while my admiration for the noble Lord, Lord Williams of Mostyn, is undying, can he assure me that he will not have his workload increased by being made spokesman for the Scottish Office towards the end of the month when the Prime Minister has his reshuffle, and that we will continue to have at least one Minister representing the Scottish Office here as a Scottish Office Minister and not on loan from the Home Office?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, that is almost the language of asperity. I am pleased to have the undying support of the noble Lord, Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish, particularly as he looks in remarkably good health.