Abattoirs

HL Deb 01 July 1999 vol 603 cc434-5

3.44 p.m.

The Countess of Mar asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will convene an urgent meeting with representatives of the Federation of Small Abattoirs and other interested parties in order to discuss the current position of abattoirs and the rural community.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Donoughue)

My Lords, Ministers are very willing to meet representatives of the abattoir industry. My honourable friend the Minister of State wrote to the Federation of Small Abattoirs on 25th June welcoming a meeting and a meeting has been arranged for Monday 5th July.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Will he ask his honourable friend in another place to bear in mind the effects that the present activities of the Meat Hygiene Service are having not only on small abattoirs but on the whole of the rural community, including consumers who like good food? Is there any possibility that I might meet with the Meat Hygiene Service to discuss all the questions that are arising to which we have had no proper answers over a long period?

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, I assure the noble Countess that my honourable friend is aware of all the very genuine concerns of the industry and will bear them in mind. I spoke this morning with senior officials of the Meat Hygiene Service. They are happy to meet the noble Countess and for her to raise her concerns. As regards not responding to questions, I feel that the replies I have signed to the large number of Questions tabled by the noble Baroness cover the concerns she has expressed.

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer

My Lords, one of the issues that has emerged from the closure of so many small abattoirs is that of animal welfare because animals now need to be transported longer distances. Is the Minister aware that the Farm Animal Welfare Council has commissioned two reports and is investigating slaughterhouses and livestock markets, but neither report has addressed the transportation and collection of animals, which seem such fundamental issues?

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, I wholly agree with the noble Baroness that the welfare of animals is a most important aspect of the closure of abattoirs, especially small ones in remote areas. We believe that transportation is an important aspect of animal welfare. We bear that in mind. There are already welfare rules covering the matter.

Baroness Fookes

My Lords, is it not extraordinary that while we worry about abattoirs here we allow animals to be exported live on nightmare journeys to the Continent to be slaughtered, in many instances in abattoirs which would be closed immediately if they were situated in this country? Can the Minister give us any encouragement on that score?

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, the export of live animals is allowed under the existing rules to which we are subject. We subject that transportation to quite strict welfare rules. I do not believe that continental abattoirs operate under much poorer regulations than ours. We are all subject to similar rules. We have written to the Commission asking it to inspect abattoirs throughout the whole of the European Union to make sure that similar rules are being applied.

Lord Phillips of Sudbury

My Lords, before asking my question I declare an interest as a non-executive director of a large pork meat processing company. Not long ago meat hygiene services were the responsibility of local authorities. Since the central Meat Hygiene Service took over, its charges have risen astronomically. That affects not only the small abattoir but also the large abattoir and affects export capability. Will the noble Lord therefore contemplate reversing the centralisation of meat hygiene services and reverting to the localised service which was much more sensitive and infinitely cheaper? Finally, will he consider how Germany manages to have vastly more small abattoirs which seem to survive, and indeed thrive, to the benefit of their local communities?

Lord Donoughue

My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord. All the evidence shows that under the previous system hygiene standards were not as high as they are now. Standards are rising under the Meat Hygiene Service. Currently, 75 per cent of plants meet a B category under the HAS system—that is a score of 70 or more—and standards are rising. It would be quite wrong to revert to the previous system. The charges we apply for hygiene inspections are required under the European directive. We are required to recover the costs; there cannot be cross-subsidisation. As to the German system, I do not feel expert enough to comment.