HL Deb 16 December 1999 vol 608 cc302-6

11.9 a.m.

Lord Annan

asked Her Majesty's Government:

How often the flight paths into Heathrow airport are changed.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Lord Whitty)

My Lords, the only fixed flight paths into Heathrow are those for the final approach; that is, after the aircraft have joined the instrument landing system. They are aligned with the runways and have not changed since the airport opened. They usually extend from 14 to 35 kilometres from touchdown, depending on how busy the airport is. There are no fixed routes for aircraft to follow before joining the final approach paths. A system of alternating the runway used for daytime landings at Heathrow during westerly operations has operated since 1972. This provides predictable periods of relief from landing noise for communities directly under the final approach paths up to about 12 kilometres from touchdown.

Lord Annan

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that London is the only great city which has passenger aircraft flying over it into its main airport? It does not happen in Paris, New York, Berlin, Rome or even Athens.

I must declare an interest, in that I live in Pimlico. Is the noble Lord aware that in west London people in modest houses with tiny gardens like my own take pleasure from sitting out in the evenings and in the afternoon? However, it is almost impossible to do that when the noise of one aircraft as it disappears into the west is followed by the noise of another aircraft approaching from the east. Surely something can be done to ameliorate this situation, which affects anyone who lives west of Lambeth Bridge? Finally, does the noble Lord agree with me that it would be pure folly to have a fifth runway at Heathrow? Such a situation would be intolerable.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, in relation to the final point, the issue at stake is an additional terminal rather than an additional runway. It does not have direct implications in terms of number of movements but, given that it is a matter for public inquiry, the noble Lord will understand that I cannot comment in substance.

As it happens, I too live in Pimlico when I am in London and I am aware that a significant number of regular flights take place across central London. However, it is a much better situation than that which I experienced when I spent a fair proportion of my boyhood living in the Hounslow area. At that time the level of noise from individual aircraft was considerably higher and there were more night flights. Technology has significantly improved the amount of noise that comes from aircraft. There will be another change in that in the year 2002, when the Chapter 2 aircraft will be phased out entirely. That will again improve the noise levels.

As to whether it is necessary for aircraft to pass over central London, it is an advantage that aircraft landing rather than aircraft take-off occurs over the built-up area, because take-off, at least in the immediate vicinity, is much noisier.

Lord Elton

My Lords, the fact that things are worse in Hounslow surely does not make it undesirable to make things better in Pimlico. Can the Minister tell us whether he manages to sleep at night with his window open, or does he, like many residents who live west of London, find it impossible to sleep healthily because of aircraft noise?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the comparison I was making was with Hounslow in the 1950s and 1960s, when aircraft were considerably noisier. Clearly it is of benefit to reduce the total amount of noise to any communities which are overflown. Indeed, the international aircraft industry has made great advances in recent years, while meeting increased demand. As regards my sleeping habits, I shall not bother the House any further in that respect.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is it not the simple truth that there have far too many aircraft landing at Heathrow and that a substantial number of them should be obliged to land at other London airports which are available?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, put simply, there is a significant increase in air traffic. Although much of it has been taken care of by increased capacity of individual aircraft, the demand is there and it is on all London airports. It would be difficult to see any significant reduction in the number of aircraft going into Heathrow in the foreseeable future. Although we take an overall approach to regional airport planning, the pressure on London airports as a whole is likely to remain.

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood

My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether anything has been done to alter the profile of the landing path by bringing the aircraft in at a higher level nearer to the threshold?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the air traffic control operates tactically to get aircraft into the final approach level. I cannot explain this very easily without visual aids, but there are four stacking places as they come into the final approach. Depending on the weather conditions and the wind, some aircraft start further out and from a higher level than others. However, all that forms part of the tactical decisions that the air traffic controllers have to take as regards the aircraft, and so on, on the particular day. Of course, at the end of the day they all have to come down to the same level.

Baroness Gardner of Parkes

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there are a number of us in the Chamber who thoroughly approve of the present number of flights at Heathrow and would like to see more of them? Does the noble Lord realise that some of us do not agree at all with the opening remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Annan, about the important airports of the world and that we would add Sydney, Rio and many of the Asian airports to that list, all of which do have air terminals and airports that are very close to their main cities? Indeed, this is an added tourist attraction. Further, is he aware that every night my husband welcomes the sound of Concorde flying over and hopes that it may long continue? There are many people living in central London who are not disturbed by air traffic noise. However, we have every sympathy with those living right next to an airport.

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I bow to the noble Baroness's experience of airports of the world. When the noble Lord was speaking, it certainly occurred to me that there are a number of airports that are situated closer to the city centre than is the case with Heathrow. The importance of Heathrow to our economy and to our well-being is very much recognised by this Government. That involves a significant number of movements into London.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, perhaps I may persuade the noble Lord to go a little further into something that he referred to a short while ago; namely, another improvement in noise levels. Not everyone is aware of there having been any improvement at all. Will the noble Lord just think a little about the effect of these constant flights over Kew Gardens, where the real delights and beauty of the place are spoilt to a very large extent by this awful phenomenon?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, since the noble Lord had responsibility for these matters, I believe that the noise of aircraft has significantly reduced. However, perhaps I am wrong in that respect and civil aviation was not part of his portfolio at that time. If that is so, I apologise to the noble Lord. I am not entirely familiar with the changes in Whitehall boundaries.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, the department of which I was a very humble part thought that air transport had nothing to do with transport.

Noble Lords

Oh!

Lord Whitty

My Lords, I think that we can see the progress that has been made by my right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister in this respect. There have been very significant changes. When comparing weight for weight current aircraft noise is actually something like a sixth to a tenth less than was the case previously. There are also more movements and aircraft are larger. Nevertheless, as compared with about a decade ago, the average aircraft is half as noisy as it was in the past. That is a great tribute both to those who put pressure on the manufacturing industry and to the industry itself world-wide.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, following the question of my noble friend Lord Elton, what is the earliest time in the morning at which aircraft may make an approach to Heathrow? At what times are aircraft switched over from the north to the south runway at Heathrow?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, the two shifts, as it were, run from seven o'clock in the morning to three o'clock in the afternoon and from three o'clock to eleven o'clock at night. We shall shortly introduce a night-time alternation. There are few take-offs but many landings at night.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I asked what is the earliest time in the morning at which an aircraft may make an approach to Heathrow. I think that it is probably about half-past four. I say that as I too am a resident of Pimlico!

Lord Whitty

My Lords, we have greatly restricted night-time flying into Heathrow although, strictly speaking, there is no absolute ban. We have limited the number in agreement with the airlines and the airport. Take-offs tend not to occur before four o'clock in the morning.

Lord Weatherill

My Lords, there is a rumour that Biggin Hill may be developed as a further large airport. Is this a rumour or a fact?

Lord Whitty

My Lords, there are rumours around the country that almost every former military airport is about to be turned into a mini Heathrow. A number of schemes exist but no decision is pending as regards Biggin Hill or the vast majority of the other airports which are the subject of rumours.