Shadow Arts Council (Hansard, 27 April 1999)

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, we welcome any contribution to mature debate on the arts in Britain, but we cannot agree with Sir Peter Hall's analysis. This Government are passionate about the arts and have translated that commitment into the largest increase in funding for the arts in a generation.

§ Lord Renton of Mount Harry
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer. However, perhaps I may offer him my deepest sympathy for the quandary in which the Labour Government find themselves with regard to the arts. After all, it is only six or nine months since the Prime Minister, at a Downing Street seminar on the arts, said that he intended to write the arts into Labour's core script. What does the Minister think has gone wrong? Why have people as famous and diverse as John Tusa, Howard Hodgkin, Harold Pinter and Peter Hall decided that the arts are in danger? Could it be that the Arts Council, for example, is now seen only as the corporate finance management division of an increasingly interventionist Minister of Culture?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord's sympathy, but it is totally misplaced. There is no change whatever in this Government's commitment to the arts, as was made clear in the announcement of funding made by the Secretary of State on 1st April. The noble Lord mentioned Sir Howard Hodgkin as being a supporter of a shadow arts council. I need only mention those who have been reported as dissociating themselves from the shadow arts council; that is, Simon Rattle, Richard Eyre, Tom Stoppard, Jeremy Isaacs, Alan Ayckbourn, Harrison Birtwistle and Howard Hodgkin. They are the knights; we have not yet come to the commoners. The crocodile tears expressed by the noble Lord are totally misplaced.

§ Lord Gibson
My Lords—

§ Lord Bragg
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Cross-Bench!

§ Lord Gibson
My Lords, what future do the Government envisage for the Arts Council, given that it 142 is now devolving most of its grant-making functions to the regions, which is perfectly sensible so far as is practical? On the other hand, when a national company gets into trouble, as Covent Garden did recently, the Minister assumes the role which previously was thought appropriate for the Arts Council. What is left for the Arts Council to do? Is it just to speak up for the arts? If so, is it perhaps that role which the shadow arts council, with which I am not associated, thinks it would perform more effectively?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the noble Lord is right up to a point. The Arts Council has decided to devolve a fair amount of its responsibilities to the regional arts boards, where local funding of the arts can be closer to the point of sale, so to speak. However, we must not exaggerate the extent of that change. Thirty-six organisations with a total funding of £15 million have been devolved to the regional arts boards. The Arts Council will still have a very important role in relation to national bodies and it will, of course, make economies in its staffing. However, together with the regional arts boards, the Government are convinced that we shall have adequate coverage of arm's length funding of the arts in this country.

§ Lord Bragg
My Lords—

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords. there is about as much sense in having a shadow arts council as there would be in having a shadow Bank of England, for example.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords. I am interested in my noble friend's suggestion, and I am sure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be as interested in that as I am.

§ Lord Bragg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their generosity in allowing me to speak. Is the Minister aware that the arts are in better shape in this country than they have been since 1979? Could he, for our information and delight, expand on that a little?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I was prepared to go back to the term of office of the noble Lord, Lord Renton of Mount Harry, as Minister for the Arts in 1990–92, when it is certainly true that he commanded a larger arts budget than any of his successors in the Conservative Government. However, I think the noble Lord will recognise that funding over the next few years is greater in real terms than it was when he was Minister for the Arts, and certainly very much greater than it was under the regime of his successors.

§ Lord Renton of Mount Harry
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that kind reference. Indeed, I was able to obtain £28 million extra for arts funding in the year when I was Minister for the Arts. However, surely he must recognise the basic fact that there is now approximately double the amount of money available for funding the arts that there used to be because of the 143 National Lottery, which was introduced by the Government of which I was a member. That is a fundamental fact. Surely the Minister would agree that it is against that background that the present dissatisfaction in the arts is so surprising.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, in that case it is even more remarkable that the Government, apart from the National Lottery, have found an extra £125 million for the arts over the next three years. I would have thought the former Minister would congratulate us on that. The dissatisfaction is very limited. We are happy to talk to those who are dissatisfied, and we always have been, but we still do not need any sympathy from the noble Lord.