HL Deb 26 April 1999 vol 600 cc44-53

5.17 p.m.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I should like to repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary in another place. The Statement is as follows:

"With permission, Madam Speaker, I should like to make a Statement about the bomb explosions in Brixton and Brick Lane.

"Last week on Saturday 17th April, the explosion in a busy market street in Brixton injured 39 members of the public and three police officers. This Saturday, at about the same time, another improvised device exploded in Brick Lane in East London, injuring six people. In both cases no warnings were given.

"I know that I speak for the whole House in expressing my deep sympathy for those injured in these blasts, for their families and friends and our admiration for the very prompt way in which the police, fire and ambulance services responded.

"Sir Paul Condon, the Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis, made it clear yesterday that the investigation into these evil acts is the number one priority for the whole of the Metropolitan Police Service. A huge effort is going into the investigation which is being led by the anti-terrorist branch. The branch has a great deal of experience of this kind of outrage but the perpetrators are only likely to be brought to justice with the help of all sections of the community. I urge anyone who believes that they have information which might help the police to contact them immediately.

"Sir Paul Condon has already stated that he considers that the bombings were racially motivated. Brixton is at the heart of London's African-Caribbean community. Brick Lane is at the heart of the Bangladeshi community in Britain. I want to make clear that any attack on these communities is an attack on all British people and the whole of British society. We will not tolerate racism of any kind, still less this pernicious violence.

"Ours is a country, which can be proud of its achievements in race relations. Because of that it is a better and stronger society. Of course, there is much more to he done to make Britain a truly multi-racial arid multi-cultural society; but the overwhelming public support for the recommendations of the Lawrence inquiry shows the strength of our commitment to achieve this.

"The criminals who committed these attacks will not succeed. As in Brixton last week, the whole community in Tower Hamlets has come together to assist the police in every way possible.

"As my honourable friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow, Oona King, has said,

History shows we do not tolerate this type of racism, however violent. If anything. I hope that some good will come out of this because both the black and the white community will strengthen so it will he overcome'. "Whilst the perpetrators of this violence remain at large there is plainly a risk that they may strike again. We must meet that threat with vigilance, but without panic.

"The police are pursuing the investigations of these bombings and the protection of the public with the utmost vigour. I have every confidence in them. I know that the whole House will share their determination and condemn these mindless crimes".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

5.20 p.m.

Lord Cope of Berkeley

My Lords, I am sure the whole House will agree with every paragraph of the Home Secretary's Statement. These are appalling outrages committed by evil people which none of us can tolerate. I entirely endorse what has been said, and particularly the expressions of sympathy to those who have been injured and affected in other ways.

As the House knows, I had some Ministerial responsibility for fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland a few years ago. We can of course in no way relax in that connection. I have visited bombed sites and bombed communities and I have reason to know a good deal about threats. The threats that have been made are threats to us all. I also endorse what the Home Secretary said in that respect.

The House will not expect the Minister to give any details that he may have either of the investigations or of the protective measures which are being taken. To do so would obviously be counter-productive. However, he assured the House that both the Metropolitan Police, and I am sure all our police forces, are working as hard as possible with the fullest possible backing to identify these criminals, to bring them to justice and to present further outrages of this kind.

5.21 p.m.

Lord Dholakia

My Lords, we on this side of the House welcome the Government's Statement and also the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Cope of Berkeley. Innocent people going about their daily business have been hurt and dastardly acts have been perpetrated against members of ethnic minorities. Sooner or later, some people, irrespective of their race or colour, will be maimed or killed simply because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

We welcome the actions that the police have taken They have been thorough and efficient and that has. assured local people that police activities will be stepped up. This confidence-building exercise is important, particularly when the community is scared and frightened. Those of us who have lived here for a long time have never before seen such an unprecedented level of hatred directed at law-abiding citizens. The perpetrators are small in number and would even kill or maim simply to generate publicity for their race-hate propaganda.

A number of Right-wing organisations have claimed responsibility. A common thread running through all of them is their hatred of the black, Asian and Jewish communities. Coming so soon after the Lawrence inquiry, the extremists have found that the British public are not prepared to tolerate racism in this country. This is a credit to the British people. The extremists have continued to lose ground in the political. process for a long time. It is no wonder that they are now hell bent on intimidating people by means of planting bombs that cause major damage.

This morning I spoke with a representative of the Board of Deputies of British Jews. They, like other communities, have been advised that the police are stepping up security for their community. In addition, the board has sent messages to schools, synagogues and others to be extra vigilant. The same message has gone out from other community leaders. The protection of temples, mosques and gurdwaras is vital. These are the focal points of community activities and must be protected at all costs.

I wish to put a number of questions to the Minister. Will he use the Asian and black media—that is, television, radio and the newspapers—to assure ethnic communities of the actions the police are taking to protect them? Will he ensure that extra precautions are taken to protect the places of worship of the different communities? Will he ensure that posters and publicity materials are printed in various languages explaining what to do if a suspicious package is found? Will the Minister examine the provisions of legislation dealing with incitement to racial hatred to ensure that racist propaganda has no place in our society? Will the Minister ensure that key areas such as Southall, Ealing, Birmingham, Bradford, Leicester, and a number of areas where minorities have settled, have additional resources so that adequate policing is possible? Will the Minister thank the police at the Palace of Westminster for their prompt action in informing many noble Lords that they have received racially offensive literature in their mail?

All of us abhor racist crimes. The present actions are designed to destabilise our record of good community relations. We must not give comfort to racists who perform such dastardly acts. I quote from the Commission for Racial Equality. This quotation supplements the sentiments which have been expressed by the Home Secretary. The commission states, The bomb attacks in Brixton and Brick Lane are an assault on the whole of British society. The sense of outrage and revulsion felt across all communities reflects growing support for decisive action to eliminate all threats to a multiracial society". We should ensure that we are vigilant against those extremists who have no concern for men, women or children of any race. They should be told that they will not be allowed to destabilise good community relations of which we are all proud.

5.26 p.m.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, the noble Lords, Lord Cope of Berkeley and Lord Dholakia, never disappoint me or, I think, your Lordships' House in the generosity and decency of their responses on these occasions. The noble Lord, Lord Cope, with his extensive knowledge, was scrupulous in saying that he would deliberately refrain from asking me details about investigations or protective measures. I am most grateful to him once again for taking that course. The Home Secretary is in close contact with Sir Paul Condon as Commissioner for the Metropolis.

The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, quite rightly said that the people involved were innocent people going about their daily business. The people who perpetrated these offences are criminals. That is foremost in my mind. I was about to say that they have planted these bombs because they had lost the moral argument, but they have no moral argument that can be detected.

The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, asked a number of questions. I agree with him that it is important fully to involve our friends and colleagues in the Asian and black communities, particularly as regards their willingness to provide media opportunities in languages that are more familiar and more appropriate to some of them. I very much take the noble Lord's point about precautions at places of worship and poster dissemination about what to do if a suspicious package is found. I believe that is well in hand.

The noble Lord mentioned the excellent service that is given—as always—to your Lordships by the police in the Palace of Westminster. I know that all your Lordships would want me to reaffirm the great gratitude that we feel for that service. The noble Lord also referred to legislation. As your Lordships know, under the Public Order Act 1986, prosecutions for incitement to racial hatred require the consent of the Attorney. I shall give a little background to this.

From 1988 to 1998 there were 54 applications to the Attorney and 45 were granted. Therefore he and his predecessors have been diligent in this regard. As your Lordships also know, the recent Crime and Disorder Act instituted nine new racially aggravated offences with increased penalties. It is also a requirement under Section 82 of the Act that, where there is evidence of a racial motive or racial hostility in connection with any offence, the court should consider that as an aggravating factor meriting an increased sentence within the maximum available. That is an extremely important measure which the noble Lord. Lord Dholakia, supported when we discussed it in your Lordships' House.

I now refer to the up-to-date material that I can provide without trespassing on unsafe areas. At 8.3 p.m. on Saturday last, the explosion having occurred at about 5.55 p.m., a call was received by a 999 operator from a man who claimed to be a member of a group which chooses to call itself Combat 18 and which claimed responsibility for the bombing. That was traced to a phone box in south-west London and, I repeat, Sir Paul has plainly stated that this was a racially-motivated attack and the police have linked it to the Brixton bombing on 17th April.

5.30 p.m.

Baroness Flather

My Lords, perhaps I may first of all apologise for being overeager in my attempt to say a few words.

I was a victim of a very serious and potentially lethal racial attack in the early 1980s. I know something about the fall-out, so to speak—apart from nails—which takes place after such an event. It is important that we tell Londoners to be robust in their response. It is not a good thing to give in and do fewer of the things that one normally does. When Northern Ireland terrorists were active in London, Londoners were extremely robust in their response. There is a lesson to be learnt. We should not let the perpetrators of such dreadful deeds win. We should not let them change the quality of life in London. I hope that the Minister will make that plain.

Secondly, it is very important that we should be open about what happens to us. If we do not speak up. no one will. Certainly in the 1980s very few people were willing to speak up and say, "Yes, we have been victims of such attacks".

Thirdly, in the past we have discussed proscribing groups. The main argument against that is that a group will simply change its name and become another group. But if the machinery is put into motion, then why not continue to proscribe each group as it becomes known? That would make the job of the police in detecting these people much easier. Usually information comes from the less right-wing right-wing groups—if there can be such a thing. These are groups which are not particularly violent but are right-wing in their thinking. They are the ones that do not like others carrying out this kind of violence. I hope the Minister will consider the question of proscribing groups.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, the question of proscribing groups is of course important but—the noble Baroness is right—it is not always successful. These are fringe, marginal organisations. I almost said they are on the margins of our society; I believe that they are beyond the margins of our society. At the moment the proscriptive powers under the Prevention of Terrorism Act are limited to those essentially connected with terrorism in Northern Ireland. But I remind your Lordships that we have issued an extensive consultation paper in regard to possible gaps in our legislation to deal with UK-wide counter-terrorism, not forgetting that international terrorism also needs to be taken into account. Therefore, I shall bear very much in mind the point made by the noble Baroness.

We should also remind ourselves that since these people have nothing else to bolster themselves, very often some of them, curiously, would want to be proscribed to obtain the attendant publicity for their otherwise dismal, pathetic little lives. It is important that we should be robust. That was very much brought home to me. My daughter, who is 17, was not too far away and within easy earshot of the bomb. We should bear in mind that terrorism wins when we succumb. I entirely endorse what the noble Baroness said about that.

As to her second point, it requires moral courage, which she has shown on all these occasions, to speak up because, again, silence is a secret accomplice.

Baroness Uddin

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating this very important Statement. Does my noble friend agree that the people of Brick Lane, both the Jewish community and now the Bangladeshi community, have historically been resolute in their defiance of fascist activities? Does he further agree that the local community has demonstrated great tenacity and strength in dealing with racists and racist attacks, of which there have been many?

I visited the site yesterday, and on Saturday night—just after the bomb exploded—I was less than half a mile away. Like many other people in the community, I could not believe that on the second Saturday after Brixton a bomb would go off. The horror and tragedy of what might have been were obvious. One had only to look at the walls and some of the cars parked on the street which had six-inch nails stuck in them. Anyone with children would be horrified by the possible consequences. Will my noble friend aid other noble Lords join me in paying tribute to the community leaders of Tower Hamlets and Brixton for dealing with the events and consequences of these incidents with the kind of robustness that has been mentioned? Perhaps I may take this opportunity to pay tribute to the police for the way they have responded very promptly since last Saturday.

Finally, will my noble friend assure the House that the Metropolitan Police will take this opportunity to build up the confidence of the community, which is feeling tense at the moment, by ensuring that sensitive support and thorough protection continue to be provided, as they have been since last Saturday. Will he further assure the House that we will vigorously continue to implement the recommendations of the Macpherson report?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, anyone who was present for the debate on the Macpherson inquiry into the murder of Stephen Lawrence will have no doubt about our determination. The action plan set out in the report could not have been more positive. Virtually all of the recommendations have been accepted in their entirety. I am happy once more to reassure your Lordships on that point.

I agree with the noble Baroness about the great tenacity and strength of people who refuse to he intimidated out of their communities. That is extremely important. Many of them are living in difficult circumstances, in a country which originally was not their own, dealing in a language which is not their own. One would have thought they would have enough struggle and adversity without being threatened by these mindless hooligans.

I am very much obliged to the noble Baroness for her generous tribute to the police. It is as well to put that in the balance occasionally when the Metropolitan police in particular have been subjected to so much criticism. The police are a public service. To move on to the noble Baroness's third point, the police are well aware, certainly under the leadership of the commissioner—it is well demonstrated—of the need to build on and improve confidence. One of the consequences of this wickedness is that it provides such an opportunity, which I know has been eagerly seized on, both by those who live in the community and insist on continuing to live their lawful, peaceful lives and by the police.

Lord Janner of Braunstone

My Lords, I wish to associate the Jewish community of this country with the statements that have been made from the Front Benches and especially by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia. We have long recognised that an attack by a fascist, racist group on any minority is an attack on all minorities. When there is an attack on the Afro-Caribbean or Asian communities it may not be today an attack on the Jews, but it will be, probably, tomorrow; if it is an attack today on the Jews, it will probably he an attack on the Catholics or the Anglicans or any other minority the day after. Whether we are Moslems, Jews, Hindus or Catholics, we are all members of minorities. Do the Government accept and does the Minister understand that we must all stand together and fight racism of this kind?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend. This sentence in the Statement got in by no accident. We thought about it with some care and I repeat it. I want to make it clear that any attack on these communities is an attack on all British people and the whole of British society. That is well worth repeating and bearing in mind.

Lord Shore of Stepney

My Lords, wise words have already been spoken from this side of the House. I want to add a few thoughts of my own, as I represented for more than 30 years the area in which the Brick Lane outrage took place. I assure the House and my noble friend the Minister that there will be full co-operation, as far as the community can give, with the authorities in helping to apprehend the evil people who inflicted this appalling outrage and indiscriminate act of violence on the community. I hope that my noble friend will be in contact with colleagues in the Government to look again at the wider problems of areas such as Brixton and Tower Hamlets arising from large-scale and recent immigrant communities and also suffering acute deprivation, particularly in housing and employment. I urge my noble friend—I have great confidence in his goodwill in this matter—to talk to his colleagues about what can be done to help ease the inevitable tensions that arise in such circumstances and meet the genuine measure of social need of the people living in those areas.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for stressing that we may confidently expect full co-operation from everyone who has decent, human feeling. I refer in particular to those who—going back to the phrase used by my noble friend Lord Dholakia—have been so monstrously affected in the innocent conduct of their daily business both in Brixton and Brick Lane. My noble friend's second point was well made. I spoke only this morning to my honourable friends Kate Hoey, who is one of the local Members of Parliament, and Oona King—the other local MP. As my noble friend rightly said, these questions are of wider consequence and they are being attacked by the social exclusion unit and welfare to work. Such measures may not be spectacular in terms of immediate results but they are an important plank in the Government's general policy for all who are poor and disadvantaged—particularly those who are poor and disadvantaged in the way my noble friend specified.

Baroness Anelay of St. John

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in condemning those people rightly referred to by the Minister as being outside the margins of society. The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, referred to the elixir of publicity that such persons enjoy. The Minister referred to existing legislation being used in an attempt to cut off that publicity. Can the Minister say what consideration is being given by the Government to ways in which the self-publicity that is possible via the Internet can be curtailed? I am sure other noble Lords are sickened and shocked, as I am, by the availability of the most disgraceful material through that medium.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

The noble Baroness, not for the first time, rightly identifies a deeply significant aspect. Everyone deplores the distribution of any anti-Semitic or racially inflammable material via the Internet or any other medium. Matter on the Internet is already subject to the same laws, provided—and this is the difficulty—that the Internet provider is within our jurisdiction. We are co-operating closely with other jurisdictions. If it can be demonstrated that offences have occurred in other jurisdictions, as a matter of course we regularly inform the relevant authorities. The criminal policy strategy unit in the Home Office co-ordinates the work undertaken on Internet crime generally. There are legal remedies, which are sometimes difficult to apply, but crime is committed, even crime on the Internet, if it can be caught within the laws that bite within our jurisdiction. There are others who help. The Internet Watch Foundation, for instance, is funded by UK Internet service providers and does good work. But I readily concede that there is a lot more yet to be done.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal

My Lords, may I saw how warmed I am by all the comments made by various noble Lords which demonstrate the change in the complexion of our society. Good men and women from every community, as represented in this House, have already spoken. That is a demonstration of what joining in friendship can do. That friendship threatens bigotry, threatens prejudice and threatens hate. Those who stand against friendship, community and warmth will feel threatened indeed by the sentiments expressed in your Lordships' House. I endorse everything said by the Minister and my other noble friends. We must not be afraid; we must be resolute in our objection and resistance to such racist terrorists as live amongst us.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right. For evil to triumph, it is only necessary that good men remain silent. It is only when one has friends—in my case, a wife—who are Indian that one realises that the key to all this is the total, utter, mindless irrelevance of racial or anti-Semitic prejudice. It has completely nothing to do with human society. They are deeply sad people—happily, in a very small, pathetic minority.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is it not encouraging that noble Lords have indicated today that there is no place for bystanders in relation to thuggery and racial bigotry of the kind we have witnessed over the past two weekends? Will my noble friend give an assurance that the police and Home Office will be especially vigilant in prosecuting where appropriate those who are responsible for journals spewing out racial hatred in the most vile way? Will he also indicate that people who have telephoned claiming responsibility for these vile crimes are, at least prima facie, guilty of crimes of causing public mischief and conspiracy and that if the evidence becomes properly available they will be prosecuted with the utmost diligence?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, my noble friend is right. That is why I thought it helpful to give such details as I could about the claim of criminal liability that was made on Saturday. My noble friend is right also that we need to be vigilant about any spewing out of material in any form of publication, including the Internet, that causes racial damage. I shall not be as absolute in saying that offences have been committed because it would be a catastrophe if people were prosecuted and were then able to say that they had not had a fair trial. They will have a fair trial and, thereafter, what they deserve.

Lord Alli

My Lords, I am on my feet for the second time in less than a week, not having spoken for eight months. I agree with many of the sentiments expressed by members of all Front Benches, but I must detract from something said by my noble friend the Minister. I have not found very satisfactory the way in which the police in this House have reacted to me and a number of my colleagues who have been subject to personal threats. I have found it difficult to receive any co-operation and to get them to take any of the comments seriously. I believe that those of my colleagues who have received personal threats and letters will agree. When in particular the officer who is responsible for our security in this House was asked to investigate, he told at least two of us that it was not his job to do so. The House should be aware of that. I should be grateful if the Minister would look into the matter and report back to the House.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, I am sorry to hear that. I had not heard it before. If the noble Lord would be so kind as to give me as much detail, chapter and verse as possible, I shall personally take up the matter with my colleague, Paul Boateng, who has responsibility for the Metropolitan Police. As soon as I receive his letter I shall take up the matter and reply to hint with as much detail as I can obtain. To carry out that kind of inquiry on behalf of those in this House, I do need detail. Subject to the agreement'of the noble Lord, Lord Alli. I shall place my reply to him and a copy of his letter in the Library. If he thinks that inappropriate, then of course I shall be guided by his judgment about confidential matters.