"Rema" Investigation (Hansard, 15 April 1999)

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, the Belize registered "Rema" sank on 25th April 1998 with the loss of all four (rather than five) members of her crew. All the crew were British nationals. Although the ship is foreign flagged and sank outside our territorial waters, the Marine Accident Investigation Branch is undertaking an investigation into the loss. The investigation has included underwater examination of the vessel, part funded by the ship's insurers. The investigation is ongoing.

§ Lord Razzall
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that answer. Does he accept that the first statement was the most relevant: that it is a Belize registered vessel? Does the noble Lord accept that Belize has one of the worst records of the so-called flag of convenience countries in that area despite being a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea? Does he accept that Belize is not a far-off country run by people over whom we have no control? Is he aware that the Belize merchant marine registry has, as a 50 per cent. shareholder, a company chaired by Mr. Michael Ashcroft, who as far as I am aware is the acting treasurer of the Conservative Party? Will he use his influence to ensure that Mr. Ashcroft procures the compliance of Belize in particular with the provisions of Article 86 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea that there must be a genuine link between the flag state and the registered ship? Were that to happen, does he agree that these accidents would be less likely to occur?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, with reference to the latter part of the noble Lord's question, I suspect that it is not for me to answer on the conduct of the treasurer of the Conservative Party. As noble Lords will know, in past life I have had cause to look at the finances of the Conservative Party and people involved in it, first with envy and then with horror. It appears that things have not changed.
On the central question, it is true that the Belize register has a pretty poor record. Considerable anxiety has been expressed in the maritime community about that record. Until the investigator's report has been completed, it would be wrong for me to indicate whether there is a direct relationship between that and the accident.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, first, does the Minister accept that we on this side of the House agree 840 very much with his last statement: that it would be wrong to come to any conclusion until the final report of the MAIB is published?
Secondly, does the noble Lord agree with me about the very tenuous link between Mr. Michael Ashcroft and his interest in the Belize register and the tragic sinking of this ship? Can the Minister say what possible link there can be? Does he agree also that this ship sank a year ago? It is therefore difficult to understand why the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, should decide that it is a topical question for this particular Thursday.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, that may be a question for the noble Lord, Lord Razzall. I suspect that it is a topical question because the issue had recent substantial media coverage.
In terms of who runs the Belize register, it is somewhat indirect but nevertheless of interest as to how that register is run. The fact of the matter is that there has been a poor record in terms of number of ships lost and the general level of safety in those ships. That is a matter of concern. As the noble Lord and I have indicated, that may or may not have had a direct effect on the nature of this tragic accident.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, will the Minister agree with me that this question about a sinking which took place more than a year ago is indeed an abuse of the topical questions offer? Will he further agree that the question put down by my noble friend Lord Monro about job losses caused by Kvaerner' s decision earlier this week, including 2,000 job losses in Govan on the Clyde, is more relevant and topical? The Liberal Democrat Party is showing its usual propensity to operate the politics of the gutter while at the same time pretending that it is above those matters.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, recognising that the noble Lord, Lord Mackay, never descends to the politics of the gutter, I believe that the substance of his question is a matter for the House authorities and not for me.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, when we refer to flags of convenience, to whose convenience are we referring?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, it is normally to unscrupulous owners. However, we have pointed historically to many countries which have run flags of convenience which now have effective maritime systems. We should not ignore that. But from the facts it does not appear that Belize is one of them.

§ Lord Newby
My Lords, whether or not being the chairman of a company which has a 50 per cent. interest in the Belize register of shipping is a tenuous link, does the Minister agree that the public realm would be served well if there were a statutory requirement for large 841 donations to any political party to be registered by the donor so that people could then form their own views as to whether potential conflicts of interest might arise?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, as noble Lords will know, I have long held that view. But the issue is incredibly wide of the Question. Nevertheless, I congratulate the noble Lord on getting the point in.