Freedom of Information Legislation (Hansard, 30 November 1998)

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, the Government will publish a draft freedom of information Bill early next year for pre-legislative scrutiny by the House of Commons Select 234 Committee for Public Administration and for public consultation. Following this, the Government will introduce the Bill to Parliament as soon as the legislative programme allows.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. As this matter has featured in Labour Party manifestos since 1974 under both old Labour and new Labour but was not acted upon between 1974 and 1979 and as a parliamentary Answer forecast that a draft Bill would be published early this year, are the Government meeting greater difficulties than they foresaw when in opposition?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, we remain firmly wedded to the principle of freedom of information. When published the White Paper was generally welcomed. We must now produce a Bill for pre-legislative scrutiny. Quite a number of noble Lords believe that to be a useful way forward because a number of intricate matters must be dealt with. I expect the period of public consultation to be of the order of three months and therefore there will not be further delay. As to the legislative programme, that is a matter for your Lordships.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the Minister said that the Bill would be available some time early next year. He also stated that it would be available for another place to discuss it through its own Select Committee. Can he give the House an assurance that committees of this House will have the opportunity to discuss the Bill, particularly in the light of the fact that the Bill will appear early next year and I understand that we are likely to be sitting over Christmas? Perhaps we can discuss it then.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I understood on Saturday morning that we would sit on Boxing Day. I have not yet had the nerve to tell my wife. Certainly, if your Lordships' House wishes a committee to scrutinise the Bill that is a matter for the usual channels in the normal way. The fact that we wish the Select Committee to give this matter close scrutiny—after all, it is chaired by Mr. Rhodri Morgan—indicates that we welcome informed, scrupulous examination.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on introducing a pre-legislative Bill. That could have occurred over the past 18 years. Can my noble friend assure the House that the Bill will be widely cast and will cover relationships not only between Ministers and others but also between civil servants and big business and civil servants of the European Commission?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I accept gratefully the congratulations offered to me by my noble friend. The precise detail is presently under discussion. There are a number of difficult areas and my noble friend identifies some quite subtle ones. That is one of the important purposes of having a full period of public consultation during which these various matters can be fully and openly discussed.

§ Lord Holme of Cheltenham
My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the publication of this Bill has 235 been delayed several times. I believe that the House would be grateful to know the degree of certainty that he now ascribes to publication early next year. We would like to see the Bill and to have a high degree of certainty that it will be published as he says in January or February.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I do not believe that I mentioned either January or February—doubtless by unfortunate oversight. It may be in the early part of next year. We are committed to the Bill and I believe that we have made a good start.

§ Lord Holme of Cheltenham
How?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, the noble Lord asks "How?". First, in the Home Office Jack Straw set up the Lawrence Inquiry with the fullest possible public scrutiny. He directed that reports of the Chief Inspector of the Prison Service should be published promptly. They are no longer kept mouldering for 18 months. The noble Earl, Lord Russell, asked for the disclosure of the contract relating to detention at Campsfield House. I said that I would look into it. I promised to see to it, and it was placed in the Library.
We have done well. We believe in the Bill. We shall bring it forward in the early part of next year. I have no doubt about that.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, arising from the question of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, does the Minister agree that because our system of government depends on Cabinet collective responsibility it is essential that the documents passing between Ministers and the Civil Service before decisions are taken by the Cabinet are protected? Otherwise our whole system will have to be changed.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point: that if one wants candid, informed advice either from officials to Ministers or between colleague Ministers it is self-evident, I should have thought, that it cannot all be available contemporaneously. We have to push the balance as far towards openness as we conceivably can.