Food Standards Agency: Progress (Hansard, 16 November 1998)

§ The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Donoughue)
My Lords, the Government remain committed to setting up a food standards agency. However, I cannot anticipate the Queen's Speech.

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. I did not expect the Minister to anticipate the contents of the Queen's Speech. However, does the Minister accept that for full public protection it is vital that the new agency has a new range of enforcement powers and that it comes under the Department of Health and not the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food? Secondly, in light of the evidence given to the BSE inquiry by former chief medical officers, what definition of "safe" will the agency use?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, the details of the proposed food standards agency are set out in full, and in great detail, in the White Paper we published in January. The White Paper envisages that that agency will have its responsibility transferred directly to the Department of Health. That will meet the essential prerequisite on page 2 of the White Paper that food safety and food health should be separated from the producer side.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, can my noble friend say how the groundwork for establishing the food standards agency will be continued and how the strong pressures against it will be countered? Can the present interim food standards unit be upgraded to a commission rather like the predecessor of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority? Will the Minister confirm that there is a move by the food standards unit towards the Department of Health to ensure that the interests of consumers and of producers are separated as the Department of Health is more suited to looking after the interests of consumers?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his question. He has great experience and knowledge in this area. As I said, I cannot anticipate what will be announced about the food standards agency, although I can state that my right honourable friend will be making a statement shortly after the Queen's Speech. My noble friend's suggestion about ensuring greater separation and the transfer of interim arrangements into the Department of Health is interesting. I cannot comment on it, but I shall bring it to the attention of my right honourable friend.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in every activity in life there is an element of risk? Will he ask those who are to form the food 982 standards agency to bear in mind that if we have sterile food—in other words, if it is totally germ-free—we shall be introducing a risk because our biological systems will not have had the priming which protects us from normal germs?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, what the noble Countess says about risk is, indeed, true. It is a most complex subject, of particular relevance to food safety, and one to which we have given considerable attention. I shall certainly draw her suggestion to the attention of my colleagues.

§ The Lord Bishop of Hereford
My Lords, I do not want to press the Minister to tell us anything that he thinks may appear in the Queen's Speech. However, does he agree with the perception that there is a conflict of interest between consumers, who desire to see ever more rigorous standards of food safety, and the agriculture industry, which is anxious to resist any further controls or regulations on the way in which it works? Does the Minister believe that there is such a conflict of interest? If so, has he anything to tell us about what channels of communication the Government are setting up to overcome that problem?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, the Government propose to set up the food standards agency as an independent body—and as independent of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food—precisely because of that perceived conflict of interest. That does not mean that we accept all that has been said about agriculture's interests. In our consultation, virtually all parts of the food industry gave tremendous support to the idea of an independent agency, realising that confidence in our food is good for the industry. I believe that that message has been conveyed to the agriculture industry itself.

§ Lord Davies of Coity
My Lords—

§ Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords—

§ Baroness Jay of Paddington
My Lords, this is not a happy experience. Of course, I am in the hands of the House, but as we have had 29 minutes of Question Time and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has asked a supplementary question, perhaps my noble friend, Lord Davies, may ask his question.

§ Lord Davies of Coity
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the definition of "safe" can be established only when we have determined the specific dangers that have to be removed?

§ Lord Donoughue
My Lords, that is, indeed, true. It is a complex issue and a complex definition. That is why my department and the Department of Health, which have worked jointly on this matter, have many scientific advisory committees to give us expert advice. Personally, I do not believe that it will ever be possible to have an absolute and reliable definition of "risk" or "safety".