HL Deb 20 May 1998 vol 589 cc1642-4

2.41 p.m.

The Earl of Clancarty

asked Her Majesty's Government:

In the light of welfare to work and other benefit and employment reforms, whether they intend to make special provision for the work of the artist, in particular those artists on low incomes who will not be able to continue their work unless they are given support to do so.

Lord Haskel

My Lords, the objectives of our welfare reforms are to reduce poverty, welfare dependency and promote work. Those artists who are able to work will be provided with the support they need to obtain and sustain employment. Special provisions for the artists are not for the social security system. We seek to support artists in other ways: funds are distributed by the Arts Council; we set up the lottery-funded endowment for science, technology and the arts: we encourage a wide range of schemes between the private sector and the arts. That is positive help: welfare dependency is not.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords—

The Earl of Clancarty

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will the Minister give some thought to the state funding what might be termed the cultural equivalent of "blue skies research": that is to say, the long-term work of some artists whose project is not itself commercial? Will the Government consider that, or will it mean in the end that all artistic cultural work will have to operate under a tyranny of commerce?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, all benefits for people on low or no income are available to artists in the same way as they are available to anyone else. If the artist is working on a project in the long term, in the expectation of payment, he or she could possibly claim family credit, housing benefit or council tax benefit, depending on his or her circumstances.

Young unemployed artists can also be given help to further their careers through the New Deal for young unemployed people. For example, artists could study on an arts-related course in full-time education or on a training option; they could follow the self-employment route of the employment option. In the main, artists can seek support from the various organisations I listed in my initial reply. The Government will support artists on long-term projects, but not necessarily on welfare.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I apologise for rising prematurely; if I am still premature, I shall sit down. Will my noble friend request the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to introduce droit de suite, which could do for the poverty-stricken artists what the public lending right has already done for the struggling author?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, we covered that ground yesterday and I explained that the Government are consistent. They believe that the various support mechanisms for the arts, which I outlined in my reply, are more beneficial to the artists than the droit de suite.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, in relation to the answer given a moment ago, will the noble Lord say how employment benefits interrelate with an artist working on a long-term piece of work who could be deemed not to be actively seeking employment?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, the artist could be claiming jobseeker's allowance. People claiming jobseeker's allowance cannot expect to hold out indefinitely for a job. They have a period of up to 13 weeks during which they can restrict their availability and job search to the specific type of work in which they are interested. That can apply to artists in the same way as it applies to other people. If the artist's claim for jobseeker's allowance continues after the permitted period has elapsed, he should perhaps broaden his horizons and look for other types of work which will enable him to leave jobseeker's allowance more quickly.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, will my noble friend at the Dispatch Box tell us how the previous government dealt with this problem?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, I am afraid that that is not in my brief.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, as the noble Lord is in explaining mode, will he explain to me and the House how someone with a regular lump sum income can possibly obtain family credit?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, he can claim family credit if he can show that he is working on a long-term project where, though the income is irregular, he expects to receive it. It is also subject to other conditions.

Lord Pilkington of Oxenford

My Lords, can the noble Lord give us an historical analysis? Does he feel that Leonardo da Vinci would have benefited from social security?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, social security was not invented in the time of Leonardo da Vinci. At that time, I suppose noble Lords opposite would consider it to have been privatised.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, is it not the case that in the past artists who have shown any potential have managed to find wealthy patrons to support them? Is there, in this day and age, a lack of wealthy patrons to support artists?

Lord Haskel

My Lords, there may be a lack of wealthy patrons. That is why the Government set up a number of schemes such as the National Endowment for the Arts, Science and Technology (NESTA) and the National Heritage Pairing Scheme. Schemes are also run by the Arts Council and local art associations to help artists who cannot find a sponsor.

Earl Russell

My Lords, will the Minister consider further the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, which has considerable implications? Will he consider whether the 13 weeks own-occupation period under the Jobseekers Act might be applied flexibly in such situations? For example, it would not have protected Jane Austen during the period when five publishers refused the manuscript of Pride and Prejudice.

Lord Haskel

My Lords, the department is flexible on these matters and I know that they take them into consideration.