HL Deb 18 May 1998 vol 589 cc1273-5

2.45 p.m.

The Earl of Clancarty

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will allow funding to be made available to those national museums and galleries which charge admission to their core collections in order to ensure that they and all national museums have free entry to their core collections at all times.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, it is a matter for the trustees of each institution to decide whether to charge for admission to their collections. Assistance is being provided for both those national museums and galleries which charge for admission and those that do not. The Heritage Lottery Fund has increased its museums and galleries access fund to £7 million, which is available for all museums and galleries across the UK, and those national museums and galleries which charge for admission may apply to this fund. Additionally, a £2 million challenge fund has been created which will maintain free admission during 1998–99 at the National Gallery, the National Portrait Gallery, the Tate Gallery and the Wallace Collection, and £1 million is being held in reserve for the British Museum to maintain free admission pending the outcome of our departmental spending review. This includes a fundamental review of the whole museums and galleries sector. The review will conclude shortly and an announcement will be made in the summer.

The Earl of Clancarty

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he admit that, with two national museums—the Walker Art Gallery and the National Museums of Scotland—introducing charges in the past 12 months, and as yet none made free, the Government's overall record so far on this matter is not good? Will the Minister give the House some idea of the criteria by which funds were awarded in the Budget to non-charging, but not to charging, museums? Does the Minister recognise that, generally speaking, those museums that charge would opt to lift the charges were they to be provided with funds to enable them to do so?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I am afraid that I did not hear the name of the first museum to which the noble Earl referred. Regarding the National Museums of Scotland, comparable funds are allocated to Scotland under the Barnett formula. I am safe in saying that because my noble friend is not present.

In response to the noble Earl's second question, the Heritage Lottery Fund is finalising its guidance for the access fund. However, it is likely to support such projects as temporary and touring exhibitions; audience development, including events or marketing aimed at groups which do not visit currently; transport to museums; and mobile museums. Whether or not they receive additional money from the access fund, museum trustees still have to make their own decisions about charging.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, where do cathedrals sit in the picture as regards admission charges? I believe that some cathedrals do charge admission where there is what might be called a national collection. Would it be possible to have a millennium project involving free admission to all cathedrals?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords. I hesitate to tread in the delicate area of the relationship between Church and state. I think I am safe in saying that it would be possible for churches and cathedrals to make applications under millennium funding.

The Earl of Carlisle

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the 1998 UK Visitor Attraction Survey, published today, indicates that over a five-year period attendance at cultural attractions for which there was a charge fell by over 1.1 per cent. and attendance at non-charging attractions rose by 4.1 per cent? In view of those statistics, which I believe to be accurate, will the Minister and his department revise the Answer that he gave to the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I have no reason to disbelieve the figures quoted by the noble Earl, although he is ahead of me in knowing what has been published today. I do not think that those modest differences would justify revision of my Answer. We have preserved free access to a considerable number of museums and galleries and are providing extra funding to those which charge.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that charging for admission and receiving government funding should be regarded as alternatives and museums should be able to choose one or the other?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, my noble friend's proposition would break the basis of my previous answers. It is for the trustees to make their own decisions. It is, of course, for the Government to make such contribution to museums and galleries as is possible within spending limits.

Lord Skidelsky

My Lords, I note what the Minister says about preserving access to some collections. Does he not admit that, when in opposition, Labour promised to preserve free access to all national collections but that since it has been in government it has reneged on that promise by setting up a spending review dealing with general matters of access, in addition to free access, and by making ad hoc grants to particular collections through raiding National Lottery money, all because it realised that it had rashly made a promise which it could not fulfil?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, no, I do not agree that that is what we said before the election. We said that access would be a cornerstone of our cultural policy and that young people, unemployed people and pensioners should not be unable to enjoy our national treasures. But we thought then, and we think now, that access is a good deal more than admission charges, important though they are.

Lord McNally

My Lords, when Ministers decide on allocation of public money to museums, is any thought given to rationalisation of the pattern of museums in this country to prevent overspending on administration and other charges?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

Yes, my Lords. This is one of the subjects of our departmental spending review, to which I referred, the results of which will be announced in the summer. We are thinking more in terms of rationalisation of collections, by agreement with the trustees concerned, but if the noble Lord has any more radical thoughts I am sure that we would listen to them.

Lord Annan

My Lords, following on the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, I hope that there would be no attempt, for example, to stop King's College, Cambridge, charging for admission to the chapel. The roof of the chapel, which is leaded, is melting after four centuries of sunshine and will have to be replaced, at enormous cost. I very much hope that there will be no kind of interference, as the money is needed very badly.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I refused to be tempted into the delicate area of relationships between Church and state; even more I refuse to be tempted into the delicate area of the relationship between state and not only the University of Cambridge but individual colleges of the University of Cambridge—or indeed into issues of global warming, to which the noble Lord, Lord Annan, appears to be alluding. No, my Lords, we have no power, nor is it our intention, to intervene.