HL Deb 05 March 1998 vol 586 cc1296-9

3.26 p.m.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, on behalf of the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, and at her request, I beg leave to ask the Chairman of Committees the Question standing in her name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

What is the position with regard to the recall of paintings lent to the House by the Tate Gallery?

The Chairman of Committees (Lord Boston of Faversham)

My Lords, the House has six paintings on loan from the Tate Gallery. Five of those were lent in 1990 and hang in the Barry Room; the other is "Dialogue at Waterloo" by Landseer, which hangs in the Peers' Guest Room and which was lent in 1985. The Tate Gallery has requested the return of these paintings as its current policy is generally not to lend to government departments and Parliament.

The Tate Gallery has been an extremely sympathetic lender to your Lordships' House. I recognise that some of your Lordships are concerned about the return of the paintings, especially the Landseer, but I hope that it may be of some comfort to the House if I announce that the Tate has agreed to delay their return for one more year. In the meantime, we shall continue to seek appropriate pictures to hang in their place.

On behalf of your Lordships, perhaps I might say that we all hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, who is in hospital for an operation, will make a speedy recovery and be restored to us as soon as possible in her full vigour. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, will pass that on to her. Perhaps I might offer a completely impartial view. The noble Baroness is, after all, one of the most popular Members of your Lordships' House.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that remark. I am certainly glad to pass on his good wishes, and I am sure the good wishes of the whole House, to the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington.

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Landseer in the Guest Room of the Duke of Wellington at the Field of Waterloo is the same painting that was greatly admired by Charlotte Bronte when she saw it in the Royal Academy of 1850? Sadly, during much of this century it was exhibited only rarely before it was lent to your Lordships' House. Why has the Tate's policy on loans been changed?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, perhaps I may deal with the noble Lord's final point first. I understand that the Tate is keen to lend in the future to exhibitions and regional galleries, and that that is the reason for its change in policy.

I was not aware of the first point the noble Lord made. It was of considerable interest. The noble Lord speaks with great experience of these matters. From the information I have received, I understand that he is right that the Wellington Landseer has not been on view in the Tate Gallery a great deal this century. Its recent history is that conservation work was done on it in 1965. In the following two years it was on loan to Apsley House. From then until 1985 it was at the Tate, although not on show. From that date it has been here.

Lord Annan

My Lords, does the Chairman of Committees agree that it may well be that the Tate is changing its policy because of the great expansion in space which will come into effect when the Bankside power station is reconditioned as part of the Tate?

Does the noble Lord also agree that it is reasonable for galleries and museums to lend pictures and objects to any state building and that that is reasonable particularly when the paintings or other objects may not be on display to the general public? That is a crucial point. All the reserve has always been on display in the National Gallery, although naturally it is not as well hung in the reserve area. But in many museums and galleries such items are locked up and cannot be seen. Therefore it is reasonable that they should be lent.

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, the noble Lord's second point is very powerful indeed. In our further explorations, your Lordships' Curator of Works of Art has not been unmindful of what can be done by the other galleries around the country. This part of the Palace of Westminster is a wholly appropriate place in which to exhibit some of those paintings.

To deal with the noble Lord's first point, he is quite right. The Tate Gallery's collection has been increasingly stretched. Apart from the point that he mentioned, the gallery has opened branches in Liverpool and St. Ives, it will open the Tate Gallery of Modern Art at the former Bankside power station in the spring of the year 2000 and will relaunch the Tate Gallery of British Art in 2001.

Baroness Rawlings

My Lords, following on from the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Annan, even after Bankside opens the Tate Gallery will still have on show only 40 per cent. of its collection; the other 60 per cent, will still be unshown. Will the Chairman of Committees consider asking Nick Serota, the director of the Tate Gallery, to reconsider the matter and think of some other paintings to lend to this House?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, I cannot from my own knowledge confirm the figures given by the noble Baroness, but I completely accept them from her. I have no doubt at all that a way will be found to pass on her wishes, which were echoed around this Chamber, if I interpreted the voices correctly. Mr. Nicholas Serota and others at his gallery have been tremendously helpful.

Baroness David

My Lords, are Ministers still able to borrow paintings from the government art collection for their rooms in their departments? If so, does the value of the paintings they borrow depend on their rank? When I was a Government Whip in 1978, I chose some very nice paintings for my room at the department and was told when I went out that they were too expensive for my rank and that I must choose something cheaper. Is that still the policy? If Ministers can still borrow from the government art collection, why not this House?

The Chairman of Committees

My Lords, on the noble Baroness's final point, I think that those in charge of the government art collection feel that places other than the Palace of Westminster take priority. The noble Baroness will not be surprised to hear me say that I have no responsibility for these matters. I am quite certain that her words will be heard by those who handle the government art collection. I can only say that my own experience at the Home Office in 1979 was to receive a very happy series of three Stanley Spencers, which I much enjoyed during the limited time that I was there.