Red Squirrel Conservation (Hansard, 23 June 1998)

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, the red squirrel is one of the priority species for biodiversity action plans. I can assure noble Lords that the Government are fully committed to conservation of the red squirrel, and will continue to strive for its long-term survival. However, we recognise that the measures currently in place and those being investigated do not identify an immediate quick-fix solution.

§ Lord Inglewood
My Lords, bearing in mind that, on the Forestry Commission's figures, between 1959 and 1991 the distribution of the red squirrel declined in England and Wales by more than 75 per cent., does the Minister agree that it is time for some quick, new and effective policies?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I am tempted to ask, "which immediate and effective plan?". We share the noble Lord's concern and compliment him on the work that he does in the North West to try to protect and to enhance the numbers of red squirrels. The Forestry Commission is managing successfully a variety of projects to protect the red squirrel. Research is continuing into new methods of protection. One of the problems is that the red squirrel prefers dense coniferous woodlands. As many noble Lords will be aware, there 114 is strong pressure, on other environmental grounds, for the extension of deciduous forests. The Forestry Commission is doing all that it can.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that one of the reasons why red squirrels are deteriorating is that they are being forced out by the grey squirrels? Will the Government take whatever action they can to publicise the damage done by grey squirrels and the fact that they should be wiped out?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, the varied response from Members of your Lordships' House indicates the difficulty of adopting a policy of eliminating grey squirrels. There is a conflict of interest. We take the view that it is important to try to protect and enhance the number of red squirrels, but we are advised by all the agencies which are working closely with the Government that a policy of attempting to kill all grey squirrels would not meet with universal approval, patently not even in your Lordships' House.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that in areas such as the one in which I live where we have red squirrels, and love them dearly, a policy of keeping out grey squirrels is essential for the survival of the red squirrels? Why does she not revert to a policy of paying for the tails of grey squirrels? That would keep the numbers down.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I have to stress that the area of conservation and management under biodiversity protection is not one which has an easy or universally acceptable result. With the Forestry Commission's sponsoring of a three-year testing project at Sheffield University, we hope that we will develop a successful sterilisation project which would avoid the measures mentioned by the noble Lord.

§ Viscount Brookeborough
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, although we are investigating ways of increasing the number of red squirrels while doing nothing to control the grey squirrels, we must revert in the meantime to a policy of shooting on sight to control the numbers? I accept that we will not wipe them out, but that is the best form of control that we have found.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I cannot agree with a policy that involves the indiscriminate shooting of any wild animal. I speak for myself as well as for the Government on this. I am conscious that parents who derive enormous pleasure from taking their children to feed grey squirrels would write to me in their thousands were I to agree with the noble Viscount.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, does the Minister agree that starvation has been one of the main causes detrimental to red squirrels? Can the noble Baroness give a little more information about the success of planting trees from which red squirrels can eat? Furthermore, does she agree that it is a great pity 115 that a sterilisation programme for those squirrels is not carried out in the London parks, with the introduction there eventually of red squirrels?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I agree that that issue is important. That is why the Forestry Commission is committed to introducing a wider range of trees which form the right habitat for the red squirrel. Grey squirrels eat smaller nuts; and there can be a conflict if the nuts are not large enough for the red squirrels. I appreciate the concern. However, I return to the point: many people in the country would fail to recognise the necessity for totally eliminating grey squirrels and would seek to protect them in a way that they may not wish to protect, for example, rats.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether any birds or beasts prey upon red squirrels? If so, which are they?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I am not aware of any birds or beasts which prey on red squirrels. However, it occurs to me that there are those with two legs and guns who appear to wish to do so.

Lord Renton
My Lords, will the noble Baroness bear in mind that in parts of south-west Scotland red squirrels are coming back thanks to a determined policy of destroying grey squirrels?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, yes, I shall bear that in mind and ensure that my right honourable friend the Minister for the Environment is aware of the success of that policy.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, is the Minister aware that squirrel pie was, I believe, a delicacy during the war? I recall having a discussion with the noble Baroness about shoots for the table. Would she promote the delicacy of squirrel pie in an effort to get rid of some of the grey squirrels?

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, there are unexpected pitfalls when standing at the Dispatch Box! I understand that squirrel pie, along with hedgehogs baked in earth, are delicacies enjoyed by some people. If any cookery book writer were to find a range of those recipes, I am sure that they would receive invaluable assistance from the noble Countess, Lady Mar.

§ Lord Ironside
My Lords, have the Government consulted the fur breeders trade association based in Newcastle-on-Tyne? It has members from all the northern hemisphere countries and has great experience and knowledge on how to preserve and conserve endangered species, in particular mink. As the Minister will agree, her party is trying to banish mink farmers.

§ Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton
My Lords, I am aware that those who have agricultural and rural community interests are often in conflict with the existence of mink. It is not only those concerned with the fur trade who have an interest in mink.
116 As regards advice and expertise that can be given, I refer to my original Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood. It is a serious question which needs tackling. I am sure we would welcome any advice that the fur traders association can offer.