HL Deb 15 June 1998 vol 590 cc1283-5

2.44 p.m.

Lord Randall of St. Budeaux asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they expect the managing trustees of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund to include a trustee from among the pensioners of the fund.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the current regulations governing the managing trustees of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund, under the Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1987, preclude the appointment of a pensioner by stipulating that no person shall be appointed a trustee unless a sitting Member in another place. The chairman of the managing trustees has just written to the Leader of the House of Commons pressing for the regulations to be amended to enable pensioner members to be appointed trustees. The proposal is now under consideration and I will ensure that the House is kept informed of progress.

Lord Randall of St. Budeaux

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, is he aware that pensions legislation introduced since the Maxwell pension scandal has advocated that a third of trustees should be elected by the membership of the scheme? Is he also aware that a huge majority, over 50 per cent. of the membership of the parliamentary scheme, which was chaired by my noble friend Lord Morris of Manchester for about 18 years, comprises pensioners? Does the Minister agree with me that, in terms of equity and plain common sense, there should be at least one representative on the trustee panel of the parliamentary pension scheme?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, my noble friend is right to say that the Pensions Act 1995 provided that one third of trustees should be from the members of the fund. But since 1972 the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund has had all its managing trustees as Members of the House of Commons. Therefore, it anticipated and went beyond the provisions of the 1995 Act. My noble friend is also right that the pensions review body under Professor Roy Goode recommended that there should be pensioner members of the trustees. That recommendation from Mr. John MacGregor, the present chairman of the trustees, is being considered by the Leader of the House of Commons.

Lord Morris of Manchester

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Randall for so kindly referring to my service to the fund over the years. While it is not for the Government alone to decide the question, does the Minister agree that the problems of many of the fund's pensioner members multiply in their retirement years and that some representation for them among the trustees would be in the best interests of the fund as a whole, not least of present MPs who are its pensioners of the future?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, my noble friend's long service to the fund has been well commented on by my noble friend Lord Randall. My noble friend Lord Morris is right that current thinking is that pensioners should be represented and the recommendation of Professor Goode is being considered by the President of the Council. I cannot say what the Government's attitude will be, but I should say to my noble friend that any change in the constitution of the pension fund must be ratified through the negative resolution procedure of both Houses.

Lord Higgins

My Lords, I must declare an interest as chairman of a company pension fund group of trustees and also as a member of the parliamentary scheme. I endorse what has been said about the splendid work done over many years by the noble Lord, Lord Morris. The implications of the Question seem to be that trustees who are pensioners would somehow represent pensioners' interests. Does the Minister agree that it is important that all trustees should, when appointed, represent all interests involved? Having said that, I express the hope that the base on which the parliamentary scheme exists would benefit from being widened in the way suggested.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I have a great deal of sympathy for what the noble Lord says. As one who set up and ran a pension fund for 30 years outside politics, I agree that there should be pensioner representatives but that all the trustees should represent all the interests of all the pensioners rather than any specific interest.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, how does one become a managing trustee? Is the trustee appointed? If so, who appoints him? How is it all done?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, in this case the managing trustees are appointed by the House of Commons as a whole. If the pension fund were to apply to this House, I presume that the position would be hereditary.