Scientific Advice to Government (Hansard, 28 July 1998)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Simon of Highbury)
My Lords, this Government continually seek the involvement, by various means, of a wide range of eminent scientists in order to inform their decision-making and policy development.
The Chief Scientific Adviser issued guidelines last year on the use of scientific advice in policy-making. These advocate obtaining the best available scientific advice from a sufficiently wide range of sources.
As a demonstration of our commitment to communication and to these guidelines, we have re-established the Council for Science and Technology, which is chaired by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and has three additional independent members.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the last part of his Answer must be wholly welcome? We will await the results. Is he also aware that some of the Answers given in your Lordships' House have about them a wooden and repetitive quality which suggests that a little fresh air let in before they are drafted would be rather a good thing? Can I take it from his Answer that the Government accept that in a fast moving age they cannot be other than right in taking every measure to inform themselves fully about the perils and the opportunities which come from scientific sources?

§ Lord Simon of Highbury
My Lords, I can only agree with the noble Lord that we must inform ourselves as best we can and take account of every avenue of scientific advice available to us in order to improve both the science base and our competitive performance in industry, which is vital. If the Answers appear wooden and dismal it is because the Questions appear so repetitive.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, as the individual to whom the Minister is probably referring, may I ask him whether he accepts that science tends to follow fashions and that different scientists have different ideas? One of the problems with experts is that they 1343 know all the answers so they do not ask the questions. Therefore, will the Minister accept that the Government's latest proposals are very welcome to me? I hope that we shall have a fresh wind blowing through MAFF and the Ministry of Defence.

§ Lord Simon of Highbury
My Lords, I am extremely glad that there is a supportive comment on the whole question of the way in which we consult and develop policy. I took the noble Countess's comments to be very supportive, particularly in relation to those areas which apply to scientists and the science base. We have a wide range of research councils and extremely good advice on science. Long may that continue.

Earl Baldwin of Bewdley
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that there is sometimes a language problem when scientists communicate with lay people and that when, for example, scientists say, as they frequently do—and I am talking about the meaning of the word "evidence" here—that there is no evidence to show such and such, often what they mean is either that they are not yet 95 per cent. certain or else "We haven't actually looked"?

§ Lord Simon of Highbury
My Lords, as a modern linguist it has often proved difficult for me to understand some of the submissions from scientists that I have received in my industrial career. It has struck me recently that their ability to give evidence to require the political system to provide answers has been successful to the extent that they have secured an extra £1.1 billion on their spending budget, which was already, in private and government hands, at £14.4 billion. Therefore, it seems to me that there is evidence that their communication is both successful and clear.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, if the Minister has found the noble Countess's Questions repetitive, does he agree that on occasion that may be because they have been answered at the seventh rather than the first time of asking? Do I take it from the encouraging words that I have heard exchanged that that will no longer take place?

§ Lord Simon of Highbury
My Lords, I can only speak for my own position in response to the noble Earl. I am now answering for the second time. I hope that I bring wholly good news on a series of repetitive questions that amount to two.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, the noble Lord makes much of the business of repetitive questions. Will he accept an assurance from this side of the House that Questions will cease to be repetitive just as soon as they receive satisfactory answers?

§ Lord Simon of Highbury
My Lords, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I hope that the noble Lord is satisfied with an increase of £1.1 billion in the science budget over three years and the extension of research councils. I am sure that all noble Lords will look forward to the good news which the Prime Minister may bring about these matters when he makes a Statement later in the day.