Age Discrimination (Hansard, 2 February 1998)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)
My Lords, the Government deplore unjustified age discrimination and are committed to ensuring that all people are treated fairly, whatever their age. The Government are consulting widely about how best to tackle issues facing older workers, and my right honourable friend the Minister of State held a meeting with a range of key figures from business, the lobby and other interested parties on 27th October last year. He has also met a number of older workers and organisations. He plans to continue the consultation into the spring. The Government are also proposing to draw up a code of 428 practice in consultation with, for example, the CBI and the TUC. The code will aim to promote fair practices both for older people seeking work and those already in work. At this stage there are no plans to legislate against age discrimination.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that expected reply. Although this issue has been debated on a number of occasions in both Houses of Parliament, government replies have been more or less the same. They have been very consistent over about two decades. Age Concern is very worried about this matter, as are we all. There is still an arbitrary cut-off point in many government departments—the DSS. the Department for Education and Employment and the Department of Trade and Industry. Recent surveys show that 3.4 million people are discriminated against in healthcare. Forty per cent. of heart attack rehabilitation units operate an upper age limit; 7 million people have been discriminated against in insurance services; 3.5 million have been discriminated against in the benefits system; and 4 million people have been discriminated against in education and training. While we hear much, and rightly so, about the shortage of skilled labour—I welcome and applaud the actions being taken to train youngsters—we are at the same time discriminating on the basis of age against thousands of skilled men and women who have the skills we require as a nation.
Does my noble friend accept that while voluntary action and codes of practice are welcome they have been condemned by the DfEE's valuation, which recently said that they had had little or no impact? Will she now reconsider her reply and agree that legislation is urgently required if we are to reverse the situation whereby thousands of capable men and women are condemned to a life of vegetation, vegetation, vegetation?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, my noble friend has made a long speech. As the only granny in the Government, perhaps I may say that I agree with quite a number of the things he said about the importance of avoiding discrimination on grounds of age. The Government are very aware of the need to deal with some of the issues he raised. However, I disagree with what he said about a code of practice. The Government think it is right to develop a code of practice and to do so after consultation with all the parties concerned, including those involved in supporting older people in our community, and with the CBI and the TUC. In that way we shall develop a voluntary code which we have every intention of ensuring produces good results.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the downsizing in industry which took place under the previous government resulted in large numbers of people having to accept early retirement, which they did not want, at the age of 50-plus? What is being done to ensure that such people, who are still capable of making a contribution, are not excluded from the labour market?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I agree very much with my noble friend. Many people over the age of 50 have the skills, experience and wisdom to make a major contribution in a wide variety of areas. It is true that under the previous government large numbers of people in their fifties were displaced from the labour force. Some 30 per cent. of people now economically inactive are aged between 50 and 65. This Government, by a variety of measures, including through the proposals in the White Paper on lifelong learning to be issued in the near future, are determined to ensure that people's skills go on being developed right up to the age at which they retire.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, is the Minister aware that in 1995 the number of people over 50 and under 65 who were excused from the actively seeking work rules because they had not worked for the previous 10 years was 2.594 million? Has that figure increased or diminished since then? If she does not have that figure to hand. I wonder whether she will write to me.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I have a figure not quite as precise as the one the noble Earl has just given. It is that there are 2.5 million people who are economically inactive at present. Employment among those aged 50 to 64 has been growing at an above average rate over the past couple of years. That is a good sign. However, there is still a lot more we have to do and a long way to go in providing gainful employment for large numbers of people in this age group.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that a good deal of age discrimination takes place in the public sector? Is she aware that public sector workers over the age of 50 are often singled out for early retirement? Can she say whether the Government themselves operate any age bar in ministerial appointments; and if so, what is that bar?

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I do not think I would be occupying this position if there were an age bar against people over the age of 50; or indeed over 55. I may perhaps be allowed a little poetic licence. It is important that we do not discriminate on the ground of age. What matters is merit and whether people can do the job. I am not aware that the public sector has a worse record than the private sector in that respect. Both have records that could be improved. And that is something we have to do.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, on the subject of age discrimination, can the noble Baroness confirm that there will be no upper age limit for membership of a reformed House of Lords?

§ Baroness Blackstone
No, my Lords. I can neither confirm nor deny that.