Libraries, Museums and Archives: New Commission (Hansard, 14 December 1998)

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport announced earlier today in another place the result of the consultation on his department's spending review. The announcement included the decision to create a new strategic body for libraries, museums and archives, to replace the Library and Information Commission and the Museums and Galleries Commission.

§ Lord Morris of Castle Morris
My Lords, I am obliged to my noble friend for that Answer. I declare an interest as a former and long ago chairman of the Museums and Galleries Commission, deeply honoured to be so and totally unpaid.
However, is it not a fact that in the DCMS consultation a significant majority of the respondents were entirely against any union of the Museums and Galleries Commission and the Library and Information Commission? In the MGC's own consultation exercise, the responses were three to one against any such merger. Can the Minister explain what arguments in favour of 1100 bringing the two sectors together were so compelling as to outweigh the clear majorities of the undoubted experts in this field?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am afraid I cannot accept my noble friend's statistics. Of the responses to the consultation on the issue, 63 were in favour, 21 were against and the remainder—a minority—were neutral or made other comments. So it is not the case that a majority of respondents were against the proposed merger.
It is true that the Museums and Galleries Commission and the National Museum Directors Conference were both opposed to the merger, but the Library and Information Commission and a large majority of local authorities were in favour.
Perhaps I may seek to go a little further than that factual reply. There are matters in common between museums and libraries as they move from a responsibility for display and conservation into the field of information and education and, generally, into knowledge and understanding. I hope that in due course my noble friend will feel that this is the direction in which all museums, libraries and archives should move.

Lord Renton
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many libraries accommodate museum work as well?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
Yes, my Lords. I am grateful to the noble Lord for that observation; it is one of the considerations that we took into account. Most local authorities have departments which comprise museums, libraries and galleries. They have found the link valuable.

§ Baroness Rendell of Babergh
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether there will also be a merger between the Arts Council and the Crafts Council?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
Yes, my Lords. Another decision announced this morning is that the Arts Council and the Crafts Council will be merged, and the document which was issued, together with the announcement in another place, makes clear how the interests of the crafts, including the Crafts Council Gallery in Pentonville Road, will be protected under the merger.

§ Baroness Anelay of St. Johns
My Lords, perhaps I may press the Minister to give the House a little more information about the statistics he mentioned in his earlier reply. Will he confirm that the statement made by the Secretary of State in another place was, on this occasion, at 10 o'clock this morning in the Tate Gallery and not this afternoon in another place? Will he further confirm that of the 167 respondents who mentioned the proposal to establish a museums and libraries body only 52 were in favour, 85 were opposed, and the remainder reserved their position? Does that not show that the Museums and Galleries Commission proved beyond doubt that the Government's proposals today are most unwelcome?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, my statement about the announcement was accurate. In 1101 addition to the press conference at the Tate Gallery this morning, a Written Answer was placed in the Library of another place this morning. I answered a Written Question from my noble friend Lady Turner of Camden. So the proprieties have been observed, if I may put it that way.
My figures on the responses on the issue were restricted to those who specifically commented on the point. However, if there is any conflict on the evidence I shall write to the noble Baroness and place a copy in the Library of the House, since it could be of public interest.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House whether there was a similar consultation concerning the Arts Council and the Crafts Council merger? Has he any similar information to that which he gave on the other mergers?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
Yes, my Lords. The departmental spending review announcement made at the end of July included the provision for consultation on the future of the Arts Council and the Crafts Council. That consultation produced a large number of responses, mostly in favour of the merger. Since it was not specifically the subject of the Question, I do not have the figures in front of me. However, I can write to my noble friend on the point.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Minister said that parliamentary proprieties had been observed. Will the noble Lord tell the House whether the Written Answer was placed in another place before or after the press statement this morning?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I believe that they were simultaneous. It was not after.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the Minister aware that not all of us believe that the co-ordination of library, arts and museum services is not a good thing? Would it not be excellent for local authorities to be able to co-ordinate cultural matters under one heading and to allocate the finance in a reasonable and positive way?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I hope that I am right in interpreting my noble friend's double negative as an expression of support. He is right that, since local authorities organise themselves in that way, they will be able to refer to the new museums, libraries and archives commission in that field. It is also true that the commission will be in a position to give strategic advice to government on all the issues which concern those local authority departments.
Although change is not proposed in the funding for national museums, they will be strongly represented on the new body and their input will be taken into account.

§ Viscount Mersey
My Lords, will the Minister tell the House the budget of the Crafts Council?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, since we are way outside the Question, I can flounder for a 1102 moment! The budget of the Crafts Council for this year and last year is £3.2 million, which is to rise to £3.4 million, £3.5 million and £3.6 million over the next three years.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, perhaps I may clarify something the Minister said. He stated that a Written Answer had been made this morning in another place. The other place was not sitting. My recollection is that Written Answers cannot be published until half-past three.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, there are two opportunities in any day for Written Answers in another place: at 9.30 a.m. and 3.30 p.m. Therefore, I feel sure that I am correct in saying that the proprieties have been observed.