HL Deb 20 April 1998 vol 588 cc915-7

2.44 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether it is correct that they were not consulted by the US Government on the possible use of nuclear weapons in the Gulf area and are not involved in nuclear war planning, and whether they agree that such discussions would undermine the non-proliferation treaty and nuclear disarmament.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Gilbert)

My Lords, we and other allies have regular discussions with the US over alliance nuclear planning. NATO's nuclear deterrent forces help ensure the peace and stability that will allow nuclear disarmament to be taken forward. Your Lordships may be relieved to know that Her Majesty's Government are not engaged in planning any nuclear wars at this time.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, so that I may thank him with even greater conviction, will he be so good as to tell the House how he draws the line between consultations on nuclear matters with the US, in the circumstances which he has described, and discussions prohibited by the non-proliferation treaty?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, as I am sure my noble friend is aware, various discussions are carried on from time to time under the procedures of the nuclear planning group. The details of those discussions are, of course, highly confidential.

Lord Chalfont

My Lords, just in case there should be any misunderstanding, can the Minister confirm that there is nothing whatever in the nuclear nonproliferation treaty which forbids consultation between nuclear weapons powers?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, there is nothing of which I am aware that includes such a prohibition.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House more about consultation with the United States about loose nuclear weapons in the former Soviet Union, about which there is a great deal of active concern in the US? Further, can he say whether her Majesty's Government are also involved in the various programmes to ensure that nuclear materials which are still not fully guarded in the former Soviet Union are now being safely removed and disposed of?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I shall respond as best I can to the noble Lord's question. Of course, this is a matter of concern for Her Majesty's Government, as, indeed, it is for any other government who might be affected by a nuclear accident or by dispersal of weapons into insecure hands on the part of malevolent people in the Soviet Union. As far as I am aware, Her Majesty's Government are not contributing any funds to those programmes but are actively engaged in discussions about them.

Lord Craig of Radley

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the possession of a nuclear capability was probably a powerful deterrent to Iraq making use of chemical or biological weapons during the conflict in the Gulf with horrendous casualties on our side?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, it is not for me to seek to interpret the thought processes of Saddam Hussein. However, I can note, as no doubt the noble and gallant Lord has done, that he was not reluctant to use chemical weapons against allies who did not possess nuclear weapons, nor against his own people, whereas he was very reluctant to use any capability that he may have had in that respect in the recent Gulf conflict.