HL Deb 27 October 1997 vol 582 cc882-4

3.10 p.m.

Earl Russell

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are satisfied with the operation of sanctions under the Jobseekers Act.

The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Baroness Blackstone)

My Lords, the Government believe that unemployed people have both rights and responsibilities. We are offering a wide range of quality help to people to find work. But it is a long-standing principle that benefit sanctions are imposed if people unreasonably cause or prolong their own unemployment. We are evaluating the jobseeker's allowance, including people's experience and perception of benefit sanctions, and we shall keep all the benefit rules under active consideration as we develop our Welfare to Work plans.

Earl Russell

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. She referred to people unreasonably prolonging their own unemployment. Perhaps I may direct her attention to some cases in the NACAB report, Benefit and Work. People left jobs, for example, in a wine bar where a woman had been three times assaulted; driving a heavy goods vehicle which was unsafe; a man suffering from angina who left heavy work which was giving him heart attacks; and a pregnant woman leaving a job where she was regularly lifting heavy boxes. These examples carry disqualification from benefit up to 26 weeks. Does the Minister believe that those people were unreasonably prolonging their unemployment?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I cannot comment on those individual cases. On the face of it, I should have thought that they were not unreasonably prolonging their unemployment. As the noble Earl is aware, there is a procedure for appeal involving an adjudicator. Those sound like cases where that procedure ought to have been used.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I certainly accept her strictures as to the tightening up of disciplinary procedures? There was widespread agreement that they possibly needed tightening. According to the report mentioned by the noble Earl, which I have read, in practice citizens advice bureaux and other voluntary organisations have plenty of evidence to suggest that benefit officials take a tough line and are unwilling, unless pressed by independent advisers, to apply the concessions allowed by the rules.

The report gives ample evidence and a number of examples. I am particularly concerned about the rules that cater for unemployed people with health problems or disabilities. Such people are allowed to place restrictions on their availability for work—for example, on the number of hours that they can work or the types of work that they are able to do. It does not matter that the effect of the restrictions is that a person is extremely unlikely to find a suitable job, provided that the restrictions are reasonable in the light of a person's physical or mental condition. Yet the report is full of examples of people who have been rejected although they fulfil the conditions. Will the noble Baroness give an assurance that the Government will take account in their review of the examples in the reports issued by the citizens advice bureaux and return with reasonable suggestions and proposals that would be more acceptable to people in those unfortunate circumstances?

Baroness Blackstone

Yes, my Lords. It is extremely important that the Government take seriously a report of this kind and examine the examples that it provides. The Government are undertaking an evaluation of JSA and of the sanctions regime established under the Act. A piece of research is being undertaken by the Centre for Research and Social Policy based at Loughborough University. The post-JSA element of that study is starting this autumn and the report should be published some time next summer.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, the Government, when in Opposition, were never supportive of sanctions and penalties for people who were prolonging their own unemployment. Therefore we welcome the Government's present policy in this area. How many young people up to the age of 25 are now out of work? Secondly, do the Government have any plans for changing the way in which they count those people as unemployed?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I am grateful for the welcome that the noble Baroness gives to the Government's policy in this area. However, her question on the numbers of unemployed young people is rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper. I will write to the noble Baroness and give her the precise, up-to-date figure. It changes every day of the week and I do not have it before me.

The Earl of Carlisle

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is widespread concern that jobcentres are not doing their job or are doing it in a heavy-handed fashion? What action will her department take to ensure that the inspectors monitor the work of those employed in jobcentres?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I am not in fact aware that jobcentres are not doing their job. They have an extremely important responsibility. To my knowledge, those who work in jobcentres carry out their difficult task to the best of their ability and with great commitment. It is always important to monitor and evaluate the work of any government agency. The Government are doing so and take the matter very seriously. Where failures occur, we will immediately do our best to rectify them.

Earl Russell

My Lords, in reply to my first supplementary question the Minister invoked the right of appeal. Is she aware that under the Jobseekers Act no benefit is paid pending an appeal? Does she agree with the view expressed by her noble friend Lady Hollis of Heigham in the previous Parliament that that denial is fundamentally unjust?

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, I am perfectly aware that until an adjudicator has examined the issues, no benefit is paid. However, the important point is that there should be no delay in adjudicators undertaking this work. Again, the Government are committed to ensuring that that will not happen.

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