HL Deb 21 October 1997 vol 582 cc693-7

3. For section 72(4B) and (4C) of the Race Relations Act 1976 substitute—

"(4B) A person is a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (4A)(c)—

  1. (a) if he is a qualified lawyer,
  2. (b) if he is an officer, official, employee or member of an independent trade union who has been certified in writing by the trade union as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the trade union,
  3. (c) if he works at an advice centre (whether as an employee or a volunteer) and has been certified in writing by the centre as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the centre, or
  4. (d) if he is a person of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.

(4C) But a person is not a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (4A)(c) in relation to the complainant—

  1. (a) if he is, is employed by or is acting in the matter for the other party or for a person who is connected with the other party,
  2. (b) in the case of a person within subsection (4B)(b) or (c), if the trade union or advice centre is the other party or a person who is connected with the other party,
  3. (c) in the case of a person within subsection (4B)(c), if the complainant makes a payment for the advice received from him, or
  4. (d) in the case of a person of a description specified in an order under subsection (4B)(d), if any condition specified in the order in relation to the giving of advice by persons of that description is not satisfied.

(4D) In subsection (4B)(a) "qualified lawyer" means—

  1. (a) as respects England and Wales, a barrister (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate, and
  2. (b) as respects Scotland, an advocate (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate.

(4E) In subsection (4B)(b) "independent trade union" has the same meaning as in the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992.

(4F) For the purposes of subsection (4C) any two persons are to be treated as connected—

  1. (a) if one is a company of which the other (directly or indirectly) has control, or
  2. (b) if both are companies of which a third person (directly or indirectly) has control."").

The noble and learned Lord said: This amendment has already been discussed. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendment No. 37:

Page 14, leave out lines 16 to 19 and insert—

("(3) For subsections (4) and (5) substitute—

"(4) A person is a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (2B)(c)—

  1. (a) if he is a qualified lawyer,
  2. (b) if he is an officer, official, employee or member of an independent trade union who has been certified in writing by the trade union as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the trade union,
  3. (c) if he works at an advice centre (whether as an employee or a volunteer) and has been certified in writing by the centre as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the centre, or
  4. (d) if he is a person of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.

(5) But a person is not a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (2B)(c) in relation to the complainant—

  1. (a) if he is, is employed by or is acting in the matter for the other party or for a person who is connected with the other party,
  2. (b) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(b) or (c), if the trade union or advice centre is the other party or a person who is connected with the other party,
  3. (c) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(c), if the complainant makes a payment for the advice received from him, or
  4. (d) in the case of a person of a description specified in an order under subsection (4)(d), if any condition specified in the order in relation to the giving of advice by persons of that description is not satisfied.

(6) In subsection (4)(a) "qualified lawyer" means—

  1. (a) as respects England and Wales, a barrister (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate, and
  2. (b) as respects Scotland, an advocate (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate.

(7) An order under subsection (4)(d) shall be made by statutory instrument which shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.

(8) For the purposes of subsection (5) any two persons are to be treated as connected—

  1. (a) if one is a company of which the other (directly or indirectly) has control, or
  2. (b) if both are companies of which a third person (directly or indirectly) has control.'"').

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendment No. 38:

Page 14, line 21, after ("after") insert ("Wales").

The noble and learned Lord said: This amendment is simply intended to rectify what I think initially was a typing error in the text. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendment No. 39:

Page 14, leave out lines 24 to 27 and insert—

("11. For section 9(4) and (5) of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 substitute—

"(4) A person is a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (3)(a)—

  1. (a) if he is a qualified lawyer,
  2. (b) if he is an officer, official, employee or member of an independent trade union who has been certified in writing by the trade union as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the trade union,
  3. (c) if he works at an advice centre (whether as an employee or a volunteer) and has been certified in writing by the centre as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the centre, or
  4. (d) if he is a person of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.

(5) But a person is not a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (3)(a) in relation to the complainant—

  1. (a) if he is, is employed by or is acting in the matter for the other party or for a person who is connected with the other party,
  2. (b) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(b) or (c), if the trade union or advice centre is the other party or a person who is connected with the other party,
  3. (c) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(c), if the complainant makes a payment for the advice received from him, or
  4. (d) in the case of a person of a description specified in an order under subsection (4)(d), if any condition specified in the order in relation to the giving of advice by persons of that description is not satisfied.

(6) In subsection (4)(a) "qualified lawyer" means—

  1. (a) as respects England and Wales, a barrister (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate, and
  2. (b) as respects Scotland, an advocate (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate.

(7) In subsection (4)(b) "independent trade union" has the same meaning as in the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992.

(8) For the purposes of subsection (5) any two persons are to be treated as connected—

  1. (a) if one is a company of which the other (directly or indirectly) has control, or
  2. (b) if both are companies of which a third person (directly or indirectly) has control.").

The noble and learned Lord said: This amendment has already been discussed. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendment No. 40:

Page 15, line 7, leave out ("to give written answers imposed by virtue of subsection (3D)") and insert ("imposed by virtue of employment tribunal procedure regulations to give written answers for the purpose of facilitating the determination of proceedings as mentioned in subsection (3A), (3B) or (3C)").

The noble and learned Lord said: This amendment has been debated. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendments Nos. 41 and 42:

Page 15, line 16, at end insert—

("16A. In section 21(1) of that Act (which specifies the decisions from which an appeal lies to the Employment Appeal Tribunal), at the end insert "or

(g) this Act.").

Page 16, leave out lines 8 to 11 and insert—

("(3) For subsection (4) substitute—

"(4) A person is a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (3)(c)—

  1. (a) if he is a qualified lawyer,
  2. (b) if he is an officer, official, employee or member of an independent trade union who has been certified in writing by the trade union as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the trade union,
  3. (c) if he works at an advice centre (whether as an employee or a volunteer) and has been certified in writing by the centre as competent to give advice and as authorised to do so on behalf of the centre, or
  4. (d) if he is a person of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.

(5) But a person is not a relevant independent adviser for the purposes of subsection (3)(c) in relation to the employee or worker—

  1. (a) if he is, is employed by or is acting in the matter for the employer or an associated employer,
  2. (b) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(b) or (c), if the trade union or advice centre is the employer or an associated employer,
  3. (c) in the case of a person within subsection (4)(c), if the employee or worker makes a payment for the advice received from him, or
  4. (d) in the case of a person of a description specified in an order under subsection (4)(d), if any condition specified in the order in relation to the giving of advice by persons of that description is not satisfied.

(6) In subsection (4)(a) "qualified lawyer" means—

  1. (a) as respects England and Wales, a barrister (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate, and
  2. (b) as respects Scotland, an advocate (whether in practice as such or employed to give legal advice), or a solicitor who holds a practising certificate.").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 43 not moved.]

Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 2 [Repeals]:

Lord Archer of Sandwell moved Amendments Nos. 44 to 49:

Page 16, leave out lines 28 to 37.

Page 16, column 3, leave out lines 39 to 43.

Page 16, line 43, at end insert—

("1993 c. 19. The Trade Union Reform and Employment Rights Act 1993. In Schedule 6, paragraph 4(b) and the word "and" preceding it.")

Page 16, line 44, leave out from beginning to end of line 4 on page 17.

Page 17. line 13, column 3. at end insert—

("In section 21(l)(e), the word "or".")

Page 17, line 25, column 3, leave out from ("tribunal'"') to end of line 30.

The noble and learned Lord said: It may be for the convenience of the House if all these amendments are moved together. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 2, as amended, agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported with amendments.