HL Deb 16 October 1997 vol 582 cc547-50

3.26 p.m.

Baroness Serota

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What action they are taking to improve recruitment among ethnic minorities in the Armed Forces.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Gilbert)

My Lords, it is the Government's view that the Armed Forces should better reflect the ethnic composition of the society that they seek to defend. All the services are paying particular attention to recruitment from ethnic minority groups. The Army initiated a campaign to that end on 13th October 1997. It includes a new complaints procedure, the formation of an equal opportunities inquiry team to work outside the chain of command on complaints of racism, and a specialist recruitment team made up of Army personnel from the ethnic minorities. A number of further measures are being investigated.

Baroness Serota

My Lords, perhaps I may first thank my noble friend the Minister for that encouraging reply and take the opportunity to congratulate the Army on this new initiative to grapple with racial discrimination and to promote equal opportunities for members of ethnic minorities who, until now, have formed some 1 per cent. only of our defence forces. Will my noble friend tell us what steps are taken by the other two services in that respect? Presumably it is through single-service campaigns.

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, the Army is taking the lead in these matters. The other services will of course be hoping to learn from their advantages. One of the things that we believe it necessary to do before we are successful in establishing a local recruitment campaign is to ensure that the services have a presence in the communities from which they are seeking to recruit. That will be the objective not just of the Army but of the other services.

Lord Archer of Sandwell

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the decision to introduce one of the two pilot schemes into Sandwell has been warmly welcomed by the local community? While I appreciate that the mills of MoD grind slowly, can he tell us anything else about what is proposed and how we can help?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend who, of course, used to be my neighbour in another place for many years. We held exploratory talks with the leader of Sandwell Council, Mr. Tarsem King, and other members of the council on 26th September to discuss the possibility of a recruitment drive in Sandwell. I am glad to say that our proposals were met with considerable enthusiasm and that the local council is supporting our initiative. We are now looking for the best possible way to take that forward, involving senior members of the ethnic community, religious leaders, the local authority and the police.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, is the Minister aware that we welcome the steps which have been taken this week by the Army, but does he agree that there is a long way to go? Does he recall that he gave me a Written Answer in July telling me that there were fewer than 10 representatives of the ethnic minorities serving in the Household Division and that two regiments had no representatives from the ethnic minorities? Does he further agree that any police force that had such a record would be subject to severe criticism? I therefore hope that the steps he has taken today will lead to a radical improvement in the situation.

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord. I do of course remember the reply which I gave him earlier this year. Indeed, I reflected upon it in preparing my answers today. He is quite right in what he said about the under-representation of ethnic minorities in particular areas of the services. One difficulty is that when one element of the services has, in the past, achieved a rather unfavourable name in those matters, it is difficult to persuade people to want to volunteer for those areas. However, I am fairly confident that before many months have passed, the noble Lord will see an improvement in precisely the areas which he has identified.

Lord Luke

My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister whether the Government's wholly admirable commitment to improving the representation of ethnic minorities in the Armed Forces extends not only to the creation of the multi-racial recruitment team which he mentioned but also to ensuring that individual personnel from appropriate ethnic minorities are represented among recruitment staff wherever there is a large number of people from ethnic minorities among the population.

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, first, it is my very pleasant duty to congratulate the noble Lord on his appointment to the Opposition Front Bench. I hope that he and I shall enjoy many years' jousting in the particular positions which we currently occupy. On the substantive point which he raised, that is indeed one of our proposals. We intend to include members of ethnic minorities in the service recruitment teams.

Lord Meston

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Armed Forces are drawing on the particular expertise of the Commission for Racial Equality not only to ensure fair recruitment but to ensure the retention of ethnic minority service men?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for that intervention. We are very closely engaged with the CRE and always have been, as were our predecessors in that respect. I hope that that co-operation will intensify in the years ahead.

Lord Gisborough

My Lords, while this measure has general support, will the Minister assure the House that ethnic origin will not take precedence over the aptitude and qualifications of people wishing to join the Army?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, there has never been any suggestion that people should be promoted if their abilities do not qualify them for that promotion. The sad fact is that there are many highly qualified members of the ethnic communities whom we have not yet succeeded in attracting to the Armed Forces, the kind of people who make very successful careers in the professions.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, will it be a serious disciplinary offence for there to be proven abuse of a racial nature?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, that is already a serious disciplinary offence.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, will the Government bear in mind the need to encourage members of the ethnic minorities into the Territorial Army, particularly where their premises are located in inner city areas like Lambeth?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, certainly it is part of our policy to encourage members of the ethnic minorities into all parts of the services which includes the Territorial Army as well as the full-time services. What is more, we intend to ensure that we not only recruit them but that we retain them and that they get a fair crack at promotion too.

Lord Hayhoe

My Lords, as a former Minister responsible for the Army, perhaps I may add my support for the initiatives which are being taken. Will the Minister confirm that the senior levels of the Army are certainly very positive on those matters and that what is required is to extend that positive support right through the ranks of the Army?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for his remarks. It is absolutely true that at the senior level of not only the Army but all the services, there is an absolute determination that racism shall not play any part in the every-day life of the services. I believe that the progress that has been made recently, and certainly our predecessors should share in the credit for that, has been extremely satisfactory. There was a time when the lower ranks and senior NCOs were not so seized of those matters. I am glad to say that that situation has now changed and it will be only a short time before we see a considerable improvement.