City Centre and Out-of-town Shopping Centres (Hansard, 15 October 1997)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Baroness Hayman)
My Lords, the Government's policy is to promote new retail and other development in existing centres. In our response to the House of Commons Environment Committee report on shopping centres, which was published on 31st July, we reaffirmed our support for Planning Policy Guidance Note 6 on town centres, which sets out the Government's policy in more detail. Out-of-centre sites should be considered only if more central sites are not available.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am pleased with the Minister's Answer. Is she aware that where huge developments have taken place—for example, Meadowhall and Dumplington outside Manchester—there has been a devastating effect on trade in the inner cities? Most of those driven into bankruptcy have been small shopkeepers and market traders. Does the Minister agree that the demise of such traders mitigates completely against the regeneration of those inner city centres?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I agree with the points made by my noble friend. The objectives of government policy are to sustain and enhance the vitality and viability of centres, especially town centres, which can serve the whole community and to ensure that there is available a wide range of shopping opportunities to which people have easy access.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, if the Minister and her department wish to encourage life in the cities and inner 439 towns will she give approval to the 20–20 Round Table organisation and its LOTS scheme; namely, Live Over The Shop?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, the noble Lord will forgive me if I do not give an instant response to his question, but I shall look at it in detail and write to him.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, will the Minister accept that many of the casualties in the battle of the giants of the high street have been thousands of small traders, and market traders in particular, as mentioned by my noble friend Lord Dean? I am pleased to hear the Minister say that that situation occurred in the past. However, can she reinforce her assurance that in future special attention will be given to the small towns and market places where such people have served for centuries and whose absence would result in those town centres and the countryside being the poorer.

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I very much accept what my noble friend says. There is scope for encouraging town centre management to bring together the public agencies, investors, retailers and residents to develop a strategy for enhancing the vitality of town centres and for increasing activity by locating businesses, leisure developments, houses or offices—all those different components—in or near town centres. Indeed, as the noble Lord suggested, there should be encouragement to occupy flats above shops.

The Earl of Lindsay
My Lords, I remind the Minister that the development of out-of-town shopping centres needs to be balanced not only with city centre shopping but also with the needs of shops in small towns and rural villages. Therefore, will the Government implement the initiatives which were being advocated by the previous Conservative Government as regards rate relief schemes for small town shops in order that they also can be helped and their needs can be balanced with those of large out-of-town shopping developments?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, we are well aware of the concerns in those areas. We are currently looking at the detailed options for review of the national non-domestic rating system. We shall be consulting widely with businesses, local authorities and others to take into account just the kind of matters which have been raised by the noble Earl.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that perhaps the proliferation of charity shops in small towns is having quite a considerable effect on other small shops in those towns?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I know that that is an area which causes concern to small traders and is of interest to Members of the House. However, I suspect that if we start to interfere in the workings of the market place and planning permissions in that kind of detail, we shall be accused of being far too interfering.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, will the Minister join with me in congratulating the people in the centre of 440 the city of Manchester for the way in which they tackled the regeneration of the city centre following the appalling damage caused by the bomb placed by the IRA? Will she join me in congratulating everybody concerned, including the local authority and the traders involved?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I am very happy to do so. I was actually in Manchester on the day on which the bomb went off because I was visiting my mother in hospital. I saw how the local hospital responded on that occasion to what, thankfully, was not an enormous number of casualties but at that time that was not known. From then on, the response from within the city has been what one would expect from the people of Manchester but nonetheless admirable for that.

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, since the Minister is so concerned about small businesses, will she explain how those will be helped by the introduction of a minimum wage?

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, I shall not say that that is extremely wide of the original Question. I shall say that when looking at the minimum wage, the Low Wage Commission is taking into account all the elements and all the considerations that need to be looked at in coming to a settlement and a level of wage compatible both with our desires to create a strong and sustainable economy and to do justice to the low paid.