§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether the volume of the three categories of radioactive nuclear waste in this country has increased since the April 1994 figures published by the Department of the Environment, and, if so, by how much in each category.
The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Earl Ferrers)My Lords, April 1994 is the latest date on which figures for the United Kingdom 649 Radioactive Waste Inventory are available. The next inventory is planned to be published in 1999, and will provide figures for April 1998.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that it is entirely unsatisfactory that we in this country should be in total ignorance of what is happening year after year? At the moment, in the absence of figures, rumour goes round to the effect that we are being absolutely swamped with nuclear waste of all kinds. We ought to know. To a very much smaller degree this issue has created considerable uproar in Germany because at least they know what is happening. Here, we are condemned to silence because the Government will not tell us. Will they buck up their ideas and let us have some information more quickly, so that we know exactly what is happening to us?
Earl FerrersMy Lords, that is lovely coming from the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins: telling us to buck up our ideas and let people know what is happening. Oddly enough, we would rather like to know what the Labour Party is doing about things but its members have been told that they must not speak; they have to keep their mouths shut. But we will discover what is going to happen, I have no doubt, if we are lucky, within the next few weeks. With regard to this particular point, it is perfectly true that there are inventories periodically. The last one was held in 1991; another in 1994; and the next is planned for 1998. In these matters, it takes quite a lot of time to try to assimilate all the facts. I do not know whether the noble Lord really expects us to do it every year.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyIndeed, my Lords, I do expect the noble Earl to do it every year. I am quite convinced that when a Labour Government, which I fully support and whose policies are entirely clear to me if not to the noble Earl, come to power, we shall get greater information; there is no reason whatever, except the Government's tardiness, that we should not have it every year.
Earl FerrersMy Lords, I will take the noble Lord on a bet; that is, if his party were to gain power, which they will not, they will not do it every year. The second point is that this is really most revealing. The noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, says that he is now part of new Labour. But we all know that there is a new Labour and an old Labour. For years the noble Lord has been categorised as being old Labour. Does he really mean to say that he has changed his spots totally?
§ Lord Peyton of YeovilMy Lords, as interest in the noble Lord's Question seems to be flagging a bit and as the original Question refers to both the Department of the Environment and to waste, I hope I am not going too wide of the mark in asking my noble friend for an assurance that that dreadful building which houses the department will be totally evacuated before long.
Earl FerrersMy Lords, I am bound to say that that is stretching the Question just about as far as you can 650 stretch any Question. If it is waste, the contents of the department were not waste; it was merely the building, which has obviously offended my noble friend's eye, and that will come down as soon as may be.
§ Lord MonkswellMy Lords, bearing in mind that the Government will have some financial responsibility with regard to radioactive waste, can the Minister give the figures for the radioactive waste, which is a government responsibility and which will presumably be needed to enable the Chancellor to conclude his Budget commitments and calculations, on the basis that there will be financial implications of how much waste there is at any one time?
Earl FerrersMy Lords, I am not quite sure of the question which the noble Lord asked. It was rather convoluted. In any event, I think that I shall have to take advice upon it. If the question is what I thought it was, I shall still have to take advice on it.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, the noble Earl suggested that I have changed my views. Is he aware that there is a difference between knowing what the policy is and approving it?
Earl FerrersMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. The only trouble is that he is lucky enough to know what the policy is of the Labour Party and nobody else does.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, can the noble Earl give us an absolute assurance that this country will not become a dumping ground for nuclear waste which countries like Germany will not accept and which will increasingly be unacceptable to their own populations?
Earl FerrersMy Lords, this country is not a dumping ground for nuclear waste. We reprocess nuclear waste and send it back to the countries of origin.
§ Lord RichardMy Lords, I wonder whether I might ask the Leader of the House, through the medium of the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, whether or not the lights in the Chamber can perhaps be dimmed, as there is so much whistling coming from the other side?
Earl FerrersMy Lords, what a pity that even the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition cannot see the light. If he came over to this side of the House, and joined this party—
Earl FerrersNoble Lords opposite must allow Ministers and others to complete their sentences without caterwauling in the most disreputable manner. All I was saying to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition is that if he were to come over to this side of the House and join us on the Benches here he would see plenty of light which is shining over there and it is pretty disagreeable stuff.