Miss Roisin McAliskey (Hansard, 12 March 1997)

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Blatch)
My Lords, the transfer of prisoners between United Kingdom jusisdictions is subject to the provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 1961. This makes no provision for a transfer to any other United Kingdom jurisdiction for these purposes of a prisoner detained in custody under the Extradition Act 1989.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply; however, I have a few questions. First, why have Her Majesty's Government not advised the German Government to accept the very large amount of bail money that has been offered? Secondly, do the noble Baroness and her colleagues know that the immediate family of the prisoner would welcome her transfer to Northern Ireland where facilities for the care of both the mother and the child, when it is born, are no doubt a good deal better than in Holloway?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I have already said that there is no power to do so. It must be a matter for Germany and for the courts in this country; it is not a matter for the Government to make that decision. As regards the care, I can tell the noble Lord that the prisoner is having all her medical needs met in this country.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, as probably the only Member of this House to have visited the lady in prison, perhaps I may say how strongly I support the proposition put forward by the noble Lord whose highmindedness is questioned by no one. Is it permissible to add that in meeting the lady I had a long talk with her? She is a thoroughly honest young woman who is pregnant—

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ The Earl of Longford
No, I do not mind what noble Lords say. I am talking about a young woman who is being very badly treated. As I said, she is a thoroughly honest young woman. That is all I want to add.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the young lady in question, Roisin McAliskey, is suspected of terrorist acts in Germany. Germany has requested her extradition and she now has to follow the due process of law. It must be for the courts to decide guilt or innocence.

§ Baroness Hayman
My Lords, on the broader issue of women prisoners generally, can the Minister confirm that there is at present no one individual with responsibility at national level for the management of women prisoner establishments or, indeed, for the provision of policy advice on sensitive areas like the treatment of pregnant prisoners and mother-and-baby units? Is that not a matter worthy of reconsideration?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, what really matters for women prisoners is that their medical needs are met and met in a practical way at local level. From all that I have heard, I am entirely confident about the facilities available at Holloway for this particular prisoner; and, indeed, for women prisoners generally because there are no special conditions for this prisoner. I am confident that those needs are being met. I believe that what matters is not great bodies at national level but someone making sure that the system works at a local level in a practical way.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, can the Minister give the House an assurance, first, that there is no question of this woman being chained during her labour? Secondly, can the Minister confirm that her baby will not be taken away from her?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I can give an absolute assurance that this prisoner will not be chained during pregnancy. Indeed, the noble Lord knows that I came to the House with a Statement, following a Statement made by my right honourable friend in another place, confirming that a pregnant woman would not be chained at all from the entrance to the hospital and throughout the whole stay in the hospital until leaving that hospital. Therefore, I can give an absolute assurance on that point.
As regards the noble Lord's second point, I can say that a decision will be taken tomorrow as to whether this prisoner's application can be acceded to; namely, to keep mother and baby together. However, I hope that the noble Lord will agree that there is a great deal to be considered and that, above all, the primary consideration is the health of the baby.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how much longer the procedure is likely to take before this young woman's case is heard? It seems to have gone on long enough already. What is holding it up?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point. However, what will hold up the case is the number of times the defendant challenges the system. There are applications for bail, and there will be challenges against any decision for extradition. Those challenges can be taken right through to this House. Therefore, it will depend on how vigorously the 297 decisions at each stage are challenged. If the case is challenged all the way, I fear that it may be some time next year before a final decision on extradition is taken.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I fully understand what the Minister said about the paramount importance of the welfare of the child. However, can the noble Baroness help us as to what other criteria will be taken into account when the decision is reached as to whether or not the child should be taken away from the mother?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, there will be social services reports, reports from the Prison Service and, indeed, reports on the interests of the child being met. A great deal will have to be considered. However, all those things will come together tomorrow when a decision will be made. That decision will be conveyed to the prisoner as soon as possible thereafter.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, on the technicalities of the matter, is there a designated court in Northern Ireland for extradition matters and if so why was this prisoner not taken before that court given that she was arrested in Northern Ireland?

§ Baroness Blatch
No, my Lords, there is not a designated court in Northern Ireland for these purposes.

§ Baroness Robson of Kiddington
My Lords, does the Minister agree that when one takes the interests of the child into account the first consideration is that the child should be allowed to stay with the mother?

§ Baroness Blatch
Yes, my Lords, that will be a strong consideration in this case as in any case concerned with keeping a mother and child together.