HL Deb 10 March 1997 vol 579 cc3-4

2.40 p.m.

Earl Russell asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will commission research on what happens to those disentitled to benefit under the new pilot projects for workfare, and whether they will commit themselves not to introduce any further projects for workfare until after such research has been published.

The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Lord Henley)

My Lords, we have already commissioned research on the effects of Project Work. This will be available by December 1997. We are extending the pilots to 28 other new areas so that a more thorough analysis can be undertaken.

Earl Russell

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Can he tell the House whether that research will include what happens to the people disentitled to benefit? He knows well, for he reminded me last Thursday, that we simply do not agree on this subject. Is he prepared to take the risk of discovering which of us is right?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I have every confidence that in due course I shall discover that I am right. Obviously, the research will look at all the effects of Project Work.

Lord McCarthy

My Lords, whatever might be the result of the research, the Government can no longer pretend that the workfare programme is dealing with the problem of putting the long-term unemployed back to work. Despite the fact that about 4 million unemployed people are going through their restart interviews and 1 million through their compulsory motivation courses, the fact is that 95 per cent. of them return to the dole.

Lord Henley

My Lords, I simply do not know where the noble Lord obtained the figure of 4 million. It is not a figure that I nor I suspect anyone else in the House recognises. However, I assure your Lordships that the initial results from the pilot scheme—and they are just that—of Project Work show that more than half the participants have left the register in pilot areas, which is highly commendable, compared to one-third in the control areas. Furthermore, 23 per cent. of all those starting on the pilot have left for jobs compared with 19 per cent. in the control areas. The difference between those obtaining jobs and those coming off the register account for those who were claiming benefit which they should not have been claiming. We do not believe it right that people should continue to claim benefits to which they are not entitled.