Romania (Hansard, 10 July 1997)

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
asked Her Majesty's Government:
What steps they intend to take to support the closer integration of Romania into western institutions.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we are strong advocates of the enlargement of western institutions. With our European partners and bilaterally through the Know-How Fund, we are helping Romania to prepare herself for European Union membership as and when she is ready. We are also encouraging Romania to take full advantage of the opportunities for 720 closer involvement with the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which were announced at the Madrid Summit on 8th July.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, will the Minister accept that it is a double blow to Romania to be denied early membership first of NATO and—very likely in the next two weeks—of the European Union, given that Romania now has effective armed forces under civilian control and a fully democratic and, what is more, a relatively clean government? Can the Government do more to press their partners to give more importance to Romania, which is the second largest country in eastern Europe, with a very delicate relationship with Hungary, and which deserves our support?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I do not wish to anticipate any decision in relation to EU membership. I have stated to the House that the Government remain strongly committed to helping Romania integrate into western institutions. Perhaps I may refer the noble Lord to what was said by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place yesterday in relation to Romania. He said, I should say a particular word about Romania and Slovenia, whose applications were especially closely considered even though there was no consensus to invite them on this occasion. Both countries have indeed made remarkable progress. Romania's new Government deserve particular congratulation on the steps taken since they took office last November. A number of allies would have liked to see Romania and Slovenia included among those invited at Madrid. All, including ourselves, saw them as strong candidates for any future enlargement".—[ Official Report, Commons. 9/7/97; col. 937.] I believe that is encouragement.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House what costs would be involved if Romania were to be invited and accepted an invitation to join NATO? We have heard many figures, but none about Romania.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I do not believe that costings on specific countries are available, but I shall check. If they are available I shall write to my noble friend. I do not believe that they have been worked out. As my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal pointed out to the House yesterday, on the broader question of costs, that is something which is still being sorted out in relation to the three countries which have been invited to join NATO.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are many ways in which countries like Romania can become more closely associated with western countries without necessarily going into the rather more controversial area of the enlargement of NATO?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, indeed there are. As we know, Romania has now become a member of the World Health Organisation, 721 the International Labour Organisation and various other organisations, which brings that country closer integration into western institutions.

§ Lord Moynihan
My Lords, while welcoming the Minister's reply, is it the Government's policy to develop further integration with Romania in the light of the human rights abuses which have been reported within the country, particularly towards members of the Roma population? How will the Government reconcile the inherent tension between a policy of integration with its human rights-led foreign policy approach?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. There have been concerns about respect for human rights in Romania, but there has been significant progress over recent years. The new Government, which took office last November, have committed themselves to further political reform in that respect. The noble Lord raised in particular the treatment of the Roma people. Sadly, they are often at the bottom of the social justice and economic ladder in many parts of Europe. They can face discrimination and prejudice. The problem is not unique to Romania. The new Government of Romania have committed themselves to improving the treatment of such minorities.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that one of the difficulties in the expansion of NATO is that inevitably, in the foreseeable future, more will be denied membership than offered it? Does she therefore agree that it is absolutely essential that we throw all the weight that we can possibly muster into the success of OSCE and organisations of that kind, so that we encourage positive policies towards those who do not join NATO rather than justify why they have not been admitted at this juncture?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, as I believe I have made clear to the House on previous occasions in relation to those who have not been invited to join NATO, the Government are determined that the admission of new members must not in any way discriminate against those who have not been invited to join at this stage. That would risk creating new dividing lines in Europe which would make a very unhappy position for all of us. The noble Lord's point is well taken. There are many ways in which countries such as Romania can be integrated into western institutions. Such ways may be offered through the World Health Organisation, UNESCO, the ILO, and other organisations.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, does the Minister accept that one of the dangerous dividing lines that one could recreate would be precisely between Hungary, which joined NATO and the European Union, and Romania, which was left outside, given the extreme delicacy of relations over Transylvania? Can the Minister assure us that the British Government will take 722 into account the importance of maintaining open relations between those two countries when we negotiate on immigration and asylum limitations?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I believe that Her Majesty's Government are aware of the difficulties that the noble Lord points out. That is why we have been at such pains to show that we do not want to see these kinds of dividing lines appearing. The United Kingdom has been active in NATO's work to devise enhanced arrangements for co-operation with non-members. The Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council and the new, strengthened arrangements for Partnership for Peace are a significant pointer in that direction. They will enable those countries not invited to join to develop deeper co-operation with NATO.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the accession of Hungary commits us all to helping that country resist Romanian claims to keep Transylvania, which is claimed by Hungary?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the position between Romania and Hungary has a difficult history. The Romanian Government are committed to creating a genuine partnership with Hungary. The relationship between the two countries is on a much warmer and more open footing than was the case before the new government took over.