Gulf War: War Pensions (Hansard, 27 January 1997)

§ The Minister of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, claims for war pensions from Gulf War participants are dealt with in exactly the same way as claims related to other periods of service. On average they have taken longer to determine than we would have wished. The problem is that a higher than normal proportion of such claims are for a number of ill-defined symptoms presenting after service release. Consideration of these requires extensive medical and service evidence in order to assess the type and level of disablement due to service. We have concentrated expert resources handling these cases and have taken a number of steps to speed up the process.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Will he convey to the Chief Executive of the War Pensions Agency my appreciation 960 of his full reply to my written questions? Does the noble Lord agree that one of the problems is that the people who are examining these Gulf veterans are looking at individual symptoms rather than examining the veterans in an holistic way? Will the Government consider giving compensation to the veterans on the same lines as the American Government are doing for their veterans, even where there has been no diagnosis?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Countess for the remarks she made about the Chief Executive of the War Pensions Agency. Under the war pensions legislation I doubt whether we could go down the same road as the Americans. We have to find a causal link between the medical problem and service before we can pay war pensions. That is what we look for. Part of the question of the noble Baroness illustrates the problem that in many cases the symptoms are often quite minor, but there are a fair number of them and they require the attention of a range of consultants. That has taken time, and we are aware of it. We have three doctors working on these cases. They have all the necessary expertise at their command that they feel they will need to decide the cases.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, on the question of war pensions, is the Minister aware that the intentions of the original Act are being completely frustrated because virtually no service personnel in future will receive a pension for deafness because of the regulations? That really is unforgivable. Will the Minister kindly look into that matter and reappraise the whole situation?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do not completely agree with the noble Lord that no serviceman could receive a pension now for deafness. However, I hope that few servicemen leaving the services in recent years would need to do so because the services are much more aware than in the past of the need for ear protection for those servicemen who are in noisy environments where guns are being used. The point I make about the war pension system is quite simply that it is rightly a generous system but there needs to be a causal link between the illness or the injury and the service.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the Minister aware—as I am sure he is—that the Royal British Legion is involved in this matter? Is the medical profession aware of the importance attached to the question of what drugs were used on our troops in the Gulf? I feel sure that the Minister will give that matter the full attention it deserves. What kind of drugs were used and were they approved by those in the higher echelons of the medical profession?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, was right to refer to the Royal British Legion. That body and a number of organisations which specifically look after disabled ex-servicemen are interested in this issue. We are aware of the various reports of certain drugs being used, for example, exposure to organophosphates—the noble Countess has 961 drawn that matter to our attention on a number of occasions—and of the vaccines that were used. The doctors working in the special section of the War Pensions Agency are well aware of all these issues and are in contact with the Department of Health, the MoD and the American authorities as regards the medical information that is being assessed.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, as this is a matter of time—it is now five years since that conflict occurred—will the noble Lord assure us that these three doctors are receiving support, knowledge and information from the MoD's medical services as fast as they should, given that the latter have suffered considerable reorganisation and cuts?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I spoke to the three doctors on Friday when I went to Blackpool to meet them. They certainly have no problem in that regard. However, some of the ex-servicemen involved have not seen their own GP or a consultant. We have to start from scratch in assembling the medical information. As I said earlier, this can often involve a number of consultants in different specialties.

§ Baroness Hollis of Heigham
My Lords, we have already seen the Minister denounced by the experts he quoted on war pensions and deafness last week for misinterpreting the research and thereby inadvertently misleading the House. Therefore, as regards war pensions and the Gulf War syndrome, how can the House be sure that the Minister's information is any more reliable? Is it not the case that the medical records of thousands of servicemen and women are, according to the MoD, hopelessly out of date; that doses of anti-nerve gas pills were not recorded; and that files have been damaged and others lost? Surely our servicemen are owed better medical research if they are to have the pensions to which they are entitled.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Baroness chooses to attack the officials who attempt to do their job in a worthwhile way. She should be careful about the numbers. We have received 180 claims relating to the so-called Gulf War syndrome. Of those we have awarded 62 because we have been able to identify perhaps psychiatric or other symptoms with service in the Gulf. About a third have received war pensions. I think that the noble Baroness, as so often, overstates the position.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that if and when causation is established the pension will be backdated retrospectively to the time of causation?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, in many cases that we consider—those from the Gulf are among them—the problem does not arise until afterwards. Many have left the service with a perfectly clean bill of 962 health and report these symptoms later. The point and general principle is that war pensions are paid from the date of the application.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, was I correct in hearing the noble Lord say that only 180 claims had been received? The Chief Executive of the War Pensions Agency states, On 2 January 1997 we had 434 claims". How does the way in which the system works at present correlate with the statement of the Chief Executive that, under the very preferential terms of the Scheme"— the war pensions scheme— where a claim is made within seven years of termination of service (and that, of course, is the case for all Gulf claims made so far) the benefit of any reasonable doubt is always given to the claimant and the onus is on the Secretary of State to show beyond reasonable doubt that service in the armed forces has played no part in the cause or course of the claimed disablement". I have had correspondence from one Gulf veteran who had 24 medical examinations in order to obtain his war pension; and he still has not received it. Will the Minister look into the present situation to see what he can do to expedite the settlement of claims?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, if the noble Countess wishes to write to me about the specific case, I shall have it looked into. However, as I mentioned in reply to the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, something like a third of the specific claimant have been awarded war pensions.
There is not a problem as regards the difference in figures. My figure of 180 related to those cases which highlighted some form of syndrome. A person may have been to the Gulf but may well be asking for a war pension because of an incident which occurred either before he went to the Gulf or after he came back from the Gulf—for instance, service currently being undertaken in Bosnia.