HL Deb 24 January 1997 vol 577 cc950-3

1.17 p.m.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Baroness Denton of Wakefield) rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 4th December be approved.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the order deals with regulating the movement of traffic on roads and the parking of vehicles, both on-street and off-street. It will amend provisions of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 and introduce new provisions, thereby updating Northern Ireland's road traffic law to correspond more closely with the law in Great Britain.

The order is in nine parts. Rather than refer specifically to each part, I believe it may be more helpful to the House if I comment briefly in general terms and point to some of the more significant provisions. The general effect of the order will be to enable the Department of the Environment to regulate the movement of traffic more effectively; to facilitate improvements in the provision and management of parking places; and with the co-operation of the police, to maintain effective enforcement measures.

Part III of the order modifies the department's powers for regulating traffic on public roads on both a permanent and a temporary basis. In particular, new provisions enable the regulation of vehicular traffic to protect the environment.

Part IV provides the powers necessary to enable the department to provide, regulate and manage the use of parking places, both on-street and off-street, and associated facilities. A number of new powers are provided, including powers to enable the introduction of resident's on-street parking schemes, and powers to counter the illegal use of off-street parking places.

Part VI restructures the powers to restrict the speed of traffic on roads and generally improve the department's ability to apply appropriate speed limits on roads. New provision is made to facilitate the use of variable speed limit signs and for setting of minimum speed limits.

Part VIII introduces new measures broadly similar to those operating in Great Britain enabling the police and the department to remove vehicles from roads and to dispose of those vehicles that they consider to have been abandoned. District councils may assist in disposing of abandoned vehicles removed by the police or the department, in pursuance of council powers under pollution control legislation. Part IX contains a number of miscellaneous provisions. Of particular interest are amendments to the orange badge scheme for disabled drivers, which make it more closely correspond with the scheme operating in Great Britain.

Also important are road safety provisions concerned with the safety of pedestrians and providing for the erection of safety rails and barriers and for pedestrian and school crossings; and a power for the department to install and maintain, on or near a road, equipment for the detection of traffic offences.

The order proposes a wide-ranging set of measures for enhancing the ability of the department and the police to enable more effective use of public roads in Northern Ireland, which will benefit both the individual and the economy.

Moved, that the draft order laid before the House on 4th December be approved—(Baroness Denton of Wakefield.)

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, although the order has been delayed 12 years, I welcome it.

Viscount Simon

My Lords, any attempt to consolidate and to update traffic regulations and traffic Acts is always welcome, and this order before us today is no exception. The noble Baroness, Lady Denton, is aware of my interest in such matters and also of my practical experience as a former examiner of advanced motorists and a civilian holder of the police Class 1 driving certificate, which, as usual, I am happy to declare to your Lordships.

I do not intend to detain your Lordships for long today, but I do have a few queries and, while they may be thought of as being somewhat petty, they concern items which to me appear ambiguous. I hope that the Minister will humour me by replying to my practical observations. Article 24 covers public service vehicles not being allowed to ply for hire when in a designated parking place. If a passenger boarded a vehicle in those circumstances and in due course, having travelled some distance, paid a fare, has an offence been committed? The driver or conductor may not have noticed the passenger boarding and did not seek a fare immediately; or, maybe a fare can be sought, treating a passenger as if boarding was effected at a later fare stage. Is either case legal or not?

Paragraph 5 of Article 43 covers an employer giving an employed driver insufficient time to complete a journey without exceeding the speed limit. The article says that, the direction shall be received as prima facie evidence". But with what will the employer be charged? Can the employer be charged with exceeding the speed limit, be fined and have his licence endorsed or be disqualified from driving? If this were the case, the implications for employers engaged in businesses using numerous vehicles are enormous. Further, is the employer taken as being the chairman or the proprietor of the business, or is it the person giving the instruction, who may not be the person actually employing the driver? Perhaps this also needs clarification.

Paragraph 6 of Articles 48 and 49 cover safe custody of vehicles while in the care of a constable. If the vehicle were to be stolen from a police station, pound or other place of safe custody—I assure your Lordships that this does happen—should the owner of the stolen vehicle look to the police for suitable recompense? If not, who is responsible?

While these matters are not directly covered by the order, they are areas which could be the cause of future misunderstanding and lead to legal action. It is for that reason that I hope the noble Baroness will be able to give direction.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, I must apologise to the Minister for not having been present in the Chamber to hear her introduction to the order. I did in fact have one or two relatively trivial questions to ask her but, if I may, I should like to write to her in that respect. I shall simply say that we support and welcome the introduction of the order.

Lord Monson

My Lords, I hope that the Minister will forgive me for intervening at virtually no notice. But when I started leafing through this 93-page order late last night, it seemed to me that, apart from one or two small details—for example, Article 72 dealing with speed limits on the Belfast Harbour Estate—it replicates much of the road traffic law which applies in England, Scotland and Wales.

I know that I have not given the Minister much notice, which means that she may not be able to answer me, but can she say whether Northern Ireland road traffic law differs from the law in the rest of the United Kingdom to any significant degree? From the opening remarks, I infer that it probably does not. If it does not, although there may be some practical difficulties, is there not at least a theoretical case for amalgamation so that we have unified traffic law covering the whole of the country?

I turn now to a minor but puzzling series of paragraphs. I refer to Article 37 which defines restricted roads. The paragraphs in the article state in essence that a restricted road is one where the lamp posts are situated, not more than 185 metres apart". Why 185 metres? It is a curious measurement. Indeed, I smell the interfering and dictatorial hand of Brussels in the matter, although I am perhaps paranoid. I suspect that originally the definition stipulated that the lamp posts be 200 yards apart which, of course, is 182.88 metres rather than 185, but I shall let that pass. Am I right in thinking that we are no longer allowed to refer to "yards" in our legislation? If so, it is all the more curious that we are still allowed to speak of a speed limit of 30 miles per hour rather than 48.28 kph.

Baroness Denton of Wakefield

My Lords, I believe that my colleague in another place also felt that he had an uncontroversial order. The noble Lord, Lord Monson, leads me immediately into European issues which could not, in a million years, be categorised as non-controversial. I shall try to answer the questions that have been raised. I should like to begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Williams, for welcoming the order on the principle of better late than never.

I should tell the noble Lord, Lord Holme, that we were delighted that business moved rather more quickly ahead of us than we had anticipated. Nevertheless, I shall be happy to answer any queries that he may have. The noble Viscount, Lord Simon, was courteous enough to identify for me the areas which were giving him some concern. I can tell him that in Northern Ireland it is an offence to pick up someone in a taxi which is not in a plying for hire area. There are very different rules there to the black cab rules in this part of the United Kingdom. It would be an offence to take a passenger. Accordingly, the person would be prosecuted.

One of the issues with roads' legislation is that it obviously covers so many areas. I draw the attention of the noble Viscount to the fact that where an employer directs that a journey should be completed within a time which could not be achieved without contravening speed limits he would, under Article 60 of the Magistrates' Courts (Northern Ireland) Order 1981, be guilty of incitement to commit a summary offence.

I say, with some sadness, given the security of police stations in Northern Ireland, that it is highly unlikely that someone would be able to remove a vehicle from custody. But the order requires the police constable to take reasonable steps to ensure safe custody of a vehicle and, if that were not the case, it is likely that the constable would be held liable if he had not taken such steps. However, as I said, I doubt whether that is an issue at the moment in Northern Ireland.

The noble Lord, Lord Monson, raised the issue of the distance between street lights. I understand that it is currently 200 yards and, therefore, translates approximately to 185 metres. The opportunity was taken to convert, although I understand that we were not required to do so. However, on the basis that our children are taught in metres and are probably the ones most likely to be affected by the legislation, that decision was taken.

I am grateful for the goodwill shown by your Lordships in welcoming this order.

On Question, Motion agreed to.