Guardsmen Wright and Fisher: Sentences (Hansard, 27 February 1997)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Baroness Denton of Wakefield)
My Lords, the terms of Mr. Justice Girvan's recent judgment require the cases of Guardsmen Fisher and Wright to be looked at afresh and for new information to be obtained and taken into account. The necessary information for the review is being gathered. Once it is received the cases will be considered as expeditiously as possible consistent with the terms of the judgment.

§ Lord Westbury
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, is she aware that those two soldiers have now been in prison for four-and-a-half years?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that I am aware of that. I well understand the sentiments that induced him to table the Question; but it would be wrong of me to comment on the detail of the cases before the fresh review has been completed.

§ Lord Bramall
My Lords, does not the noble Baroness and her department have considerable sympathy with the view that if a soldier goes on duty to aid the civil power in all good faith, with no malice aforethought, but commits a split-second error of judgment with tragic consequences—even if the act of pointing a rifle under intense pressure legally constitutes intent—at the end of the day he should serve a sentence more commensurate with unlawful killing or manslaughter than the ghastly crime of murder? Is it not clear that such a sentence has already been served by Guardsmen Fisher and Wright?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the guardsmen were tried by an independent prosecuting authority. The facts of the case were carefully and independently considered and then adjudicated upon by the court. The court held that the soldiers had no lawful justification for firing at the deceased. In those circumstances there is no alternative but to impose a 1272 mandatory sentence. The law does not permit a court to impose a discretionary sentence for someone convicted of murder.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, are not the facts these? The deceased was aged 18 and unarmed; the two soldiers were convicted in February 1995; the application for judicial review was upheld as recently as last December. Is not the proper course as the Minister indicated; namely, that the Life Sentence Review Board should be asked to do its work as the lawfully constituted authority?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Williams, that it is important that the law runs its course. The review will be completed as expeditiously as possible.

§ Lord Rees
My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that two soldiers previously convicted in similar circumstances were released within four years? Will she recognise also—I know she must feel slightly inhibited today—that the country will require clear points of distinction if the guardsmen are not given an expeditious hearing? As my noble friend said, they have already served four-and-a-half years in confinement.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, every case is reviewed individually and there will be an outcome to the review as soon as possible.

§ Lord Ackner
My Lords, does not this case provide yet another example of how undesirable the mandatory life sentence is? Does it not indicate that it is high time we made the life sentence a discretionary one so that it might be tailored to the gravity of a specific offence?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am sure that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ackner, will be as aware as I am—if not more—that as a result of a House of Lords judgment in the case of Private Clegg the Home Secretary announced a review of the law of murder. It was concluded that the case against change outweighed that in favour.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is not the Minister aware that, following the early stages of the police initiative, some people in southern and Northern Ireland who have committed cold blooded, premeditated murder against the security forces and in many cases of civilians are now walking free? Why has not the same policy been extended to the two guardsmen who nobody can prove acted with any malice?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, the Government are well aware that finding a peaceful solution to the situation in Northern Ireland is the key to a resolution of all these issues. But that should not he outside the law.

§ The Duke of Norfolk
My Lords, can the noble Baroness be more specific in relation to the two guardsmen? The fact is that Privates Thain and Clegg were released after three years' imprisonment; Guardsmen Fisher and Wright, whose cases are similar, have been confined for more than four years. We all know the awkwardness of pursuing soldiering duties. The soldiers should surely be given the same treatment as the first two privates.

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, we aim to ensure that the law and its protection is extended to all citizens. Again, I stress that it is wrong to comment on the detail before the review is completed. The law will run its course.

§ Lord Burnham
My Lords, when Private Clegg was released in July 1995 my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place said that it was a judicial matter and must remain so. Can my noble friend give the House assurances that the same will apply in these two instances?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I am pleased to reassure my noble friend and the House that the Government accept the rule of law and that judicial matters are judicial matters.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, in view of what the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, said, and truly said, about the state of the law and in view of what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, said, and truly said, when will something be done about the state of the law?

§ Baroness Denton of Wakefield
My Lords, I bear many responsibilities in my post but that I would willingly delegate to others.

Noble Lords
Next Question!

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, perhaps I may—

The Lord Privy Seal (Viscount Cranborne)
My Lords, I am in the hands of the House. Perhaps we ought to move on.