§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether the Written Answer given by Lord Gilbert on 12th November (WA 3 8) referring to the Government's commitment to achieving verifiable reductions in nuclear weapons means that they have withdrawn from their earlier commitment to work urgently for the elimination of these weapons.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean)No, my Lords. As we promised in the manifesto, we will retain Trident and press for multilateral negotiations towards mutual, balanced and verifiable reductions in nuclear weapons. When satisfied with verified progress towards our goal of the global elimination of nuclear weapons, we will ensure that British nuclear weapons are included in multilateral negotiations.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that response. I am very glad to know that the Government have not withdrawn their commitment to press for the elimination of nuclear weapons. Is my noble friend aware of the information that has come recently from the United States? That says that criminals are now in possession of a tactical nuclear weapon. Does that not press the case that the only way to ensure that we are not blackmailed by groups of criminals from all over the world who have nuclear weapons is to get rid of the things entirely? Surely we should make it impossible for anyone or any government to be able to hold any other part of the world under duress. In those circumstances, does my noble friend the Minister agree that it is urgent to press on with the matter and to seek a meeting of nuclear states so as to take forward such a policy urgently?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, I am aware of the reports highlighted by my noble friend in his supplementary question. We take all such reports seriously. However, we have no reason to doubt that the nuclear weapons states are able to ensure the security of their weapons. Our work to prevent nuclear weapons falling into terrorist hands is part of a wider commitment to prevent proliferation of all weapons of mass destruction.
My noble friend also asked about implementation and about the urgency of the matter. Our examination of how best to implement our commitment to press for multilateral negotiations on nuclear weapon reductions will include an assessment of what action we might take 148 at the conference on disarmament in Geneva, which next meets in January. We are examining all these questions in terms of the strategic defence review.
§ Lord BurnhamMy Lords, perhaps I may take the Minister a little further on the matter. She said that it was the Government's intention to maintain the Trident system. Can the noble Baroness say whether it is the Government's intention to keep the number of boats on patrol the same as it is at present, and also to keep the same timing of such patrols?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, I recognise the importance of the question. I refer the noble Lord to the answer I have just given in response to a previous supplementary question. These matters will be considered in the defence review. I hope that next year we shall be able to answer fully such detailed questions as the noble Lord has asked. It is in the context of the defence review that they must be answered.
§ Lord ChalfontMy Lords, is the Minister aware that is not an entirely satisfactory reply to the previous question? The maintenance of a certain number of Trident boats on patrol at any given time is an essential element of a credible deterrent. Will the Minister confirm that whatever may happen in the Strategic Defence Review, it remains the clear and unchangeable policy of Her Majesty's Government that this country will retain a credible nuclear deterrent?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, I hope that I have made clear that we shall retain a credible nuclear deterrent until such time as we have verifiable balanced reductions of nuclear weapons. Our examination in the Strategic Defence Review and elsewhere of all aspects of our nuclear policy will of course include an examination of nuclear warheads and boats on patrol. If we conclude that the circumstances allow reductions in the number of warheads while maintaining a credible deterrent, we shall make those reductions. However, I am afraid that while this work is still in progress I cannot comment any further on numbers.
The Earl of CarlisleMy Lords, can the noble Baroness inform us how many nation states currently possess nuclear weapons, and how many nation states are expected to possess nuclear weapons in the next 10 years? What are Her Majesty's Government doing to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, as your Lordships' House is aware, the number of nation states in possession of nuclear weapons is not necessarily verifiable at the moment. I shall make inquiries in relation to the question that the noble Lord asks to see whether I can obtain any more detailed information. The noble Lord asked about the spread of nuclear weapons. In this House we have recently debated the comprehensive test ban treaty. That measure is now before another place. As I am sure the noble 149 Lord knows, the P5 countries have already signed up to the treaty, and over 130 other countries have also put their names to the treaty.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is my noble friend aware—and is she in a position to say—that it is the Government's policy to press for a convention so that nuclear weapons can at least be put in the same category as chemical and biological weapons; namely, that of banned weapons?
§ Baroness Symons of Vernham DeanMy Lords, we are examining a number of different ways to make good our commitment to press for multilateral negotiations on nuclear weapons. A number of different measures are being pursued.