Fabian Society Booklet (Hansard, 9 December 1997)

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, as a former chairman of the Fabian Society, I thank the noble Viscount for the publicity that he gives to its excellent publications.
The Government welcome this Fabian Society paper as an interesting contribution to debate on simpler, better government. The forthcoming Better Government White Paper of my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will set out the Government's vision for public services. It will address many of the areas on which the Fabian booklet made recommendations: electronic service delivery; information for users; closer working between departments (including the Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise and the Contributions Agency); partnership between central and local government; and co-ordination between inspectors.

Viscount Chelmsford
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I, too, welcome the report. Can the Minister say whether the Government will give priority to achieving the savings identified in the report through the re-engineering of tasks performed by the two groups of central and local government departments referred to therein? That will ensure that the work is done once only and not duplicated by each department. It will also enable the citizen to obtain a single point of entry for advice and information and mean that he will not need to visit up to 11 different departments as the report alleges.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, in his supplementary question, the noble Viscount correctly identified the thrust of the work that the Government are already doing. In particular, he referred to central and local partnership. As part of the Deputy Prime Minister's central-local partnership initiative, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has set up a ministerial group to develop a framework to encourage innovative pilot initiatives to improve services at the local level, through different parts of government working together.
As regards the noble Viscount's question about electronic delivery, he may have noticed yesterday's announcement by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster regarding the first paperless form, which is to be applied to those wishing to register as self-employed.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, if the Government are so keen on delivering information electronically. will they consider the case of the Prison Service, which does not have a web page of its own? This created the greatest difficulties when it was asked to provide information for the penal lexicon (a web page which did provide information about the Prison Service). It declines to give 11 any contribution to those people who are carrying out a public service by not making such information available on its own web page.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I can confirm what the noble Lord said about the Government's determination to make information available electronically. The Prime Minister has made a tough commitment that, within five years, 25 per cent. of communication between government and citizens will be available electronically. I should point out that the Prison Service is included in that project, although I am not aware of the prison lexicon to which the noble Lord referred.

Lord Renton
My Lords, bearing in mind the fact that the Fabian Society originally stood for introducing socialism and state control steadily and not hastily, can the Minister tell the House what is the present Government's attitude towards Fabian principles? Indeed, can the noble Lord say whether the Prime Minister is a Fabian?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I believe that the Prime Minister is a Fabian. I should remind the noble Lord that the motto of the Fabian Society, in the words of Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator, has always been: When 1 strike, 1 strike hard". As far as concerns improving government relations with the citizen, I think that now is the time to strike hard.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, is the Minister aware of a recent statutory instrument laid on behalf of the Department for Education and Employment for which information on what is going on in schools, especially in terms of school numbers, and so on, is demanded both in three written copies and on a computer disk? Does that not show that the Government do not strictly have the courage of their own convictions?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am not aware of the case to which the noble Lord refers. I shall inform myself in that respect and then inform the noble Lord of the conclusions that I draw.

§ Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, as a fellow Fabian, does my noble friend the Minister agree that the philosophy behind the report is not just the efficiency of government services but also the impact upon the citizen? Is it not important that recipients of government services—for example, those on benefits—should be beneficiaries of the new technology, rather than being bypassed or disadvantaged by it?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, the Government cannot neglect the fact that £38 billion a year is spent on the delivery of their services. Therefore, the cash nexus cannot be very far from our minds. However, my noble friend is right to say that the purpose of the 12 exercise is not only to save money but also to improve the quality of services and to improve the quality of communication from the citizen to government.

Lord Lucas
My Lords, will the Minister accept my thanks for the fact that, some six long months after first having asked, I have now received my first electronic answer to a Written Question tabled in this House? I am most grateful. Will the noble Lord address himself in particular to the fourth of the requests made by the Fabian Society; namely, to introduce a local help line for people to enable them to find out what is going on in their area and receive answers from their councillors and MPs? Does the noble Lord support that aim, and does he envisage that it will involve a greater provision of offices and support to MPs in their local areas?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am sorry that it has taken so long for the noble Lord to receive electronic responses. For a number of months now I have been signing Written Questions contained in a folder to which a diskette has been attached. I thought we could have beaten the timescale that we have in fact achieved.
However, in response to the noble Lord's final question, I would not like it thought that local authorities are not already doing what is recommended by the Fabian pamphlet. Many local authorities already operate help lines or one-stop shops, and information technology is already making it possible for them to integrate advice from local and central government, and from the voluntary and private sector. We are encouraging single-entry points to which all those parts of the broad spectrum of government will contribute.