Scottish Prisons: Multiple or Consecutive Sentences (Hansard, 15 October 1996)

§ The Lord Advocate (Lord Mackay of Drumadoon)
My Lords, no, there has been no such ambiguity in Scotland.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for giving me that reassurance. Is my noble and learned friend aware that many people in Scotland thought that the premature release of prisoners, which was widely reported in the press in August, was happening there, although the Secretary of State for Scotland is responsible for Scottish prisons and there is a separate Scottish Prison Service? As that is one of several examples, should not the main political parties be concentrating on enlightening the media and the public as regards the present amount of devolution in place rather than trying to invent new and expensive layers of politicians with systems which are unlikely to be workable?

§ Lord Mackay of Drumadoon
My Lords, while I am sympathetic to much of what my noble friend said, perhaps I may concentrate on the Scottish Prison 1593 Service, which for those of your Lordships who are in any doubt is what this Question is about. It will come as no surprise to your Lordships to learn that because Scotland has a separate legal system it also has a separate prison service. On the rare occasions when prisons get into the news, as happened recently when a prisoner in Peterhead escaped when he was being escorted to hospital, it was the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service who faced the cameras and explained what had happened to the people of the locality, who were understandably concerned. It was a matter for which he and his staff took responsibility and would investigate.
As regards the concerns which were expressed in England, I was unaware that the matter had caused any apprehension in Scotland. However, I certainly undertake to draw the point raised by my noble friend to the attention of the chief executive. If any further problem should arise in England, it is to be hoped that it will not cause any apprehension in Scotland.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his thorough explanation. The impression that I have gained is exactly the one that he expressed. I am sure that we all agree that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, went slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper with his supplementary question. However, many of the legal people in Scotland with whom I have discussed the matter have agreed that there is not the same opportunity for ambiguity in the Scottish law as appears to be the case down south. I am most grateful to the noble and learned Lord for clearing up this little puzzle.

§ Lord Mackay of Drumadoon
My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord's support. The explanation may be that the law in Scotland on the matter is clearer than that south of the Border. That is why my right honourable friend the Home Secretary proposes to bring the law of England in line with that of Scotland.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble and learned friend for the further points that he makes. However, because I have been fortunate enough to spend almost all of the past three months at home in northern Scotland, I was very much aware of public concern that prisoners were being released both north and south of the Border without receiving the customary preparation and probation work beforehand. Is it true that, as reported, about one-third of the prisoners who were released early south of the Border reoffended within three months?

§ Lord Mackay of Drumadoon
My Lords, I have with me some information in that respect which was up to date until a few days ago. Noble Lords will appreciate that the statistics that need to be prepared take a few days to come to hand. However, my information is that the level of reoffending was not as high as the figure suggested by my noble friend. About 541 prisoners were released early. As of a few days ago, some 200 of that number would have been released in any event. Therefore, we are dealing with a period of only three 1594 months. Of those 541 prisoners, six are back in prison or in some other form of custody either for further offences or because they have been recalled for breach of licence. A very small number have reoffended and been taken back into custody. There may be others who have reoffended on a more minor level which has not justified their recall to custody or the refusal of bail. As I said, although my information is a few days out of date, my understanding is that the figure is way below the one-third mentioned by my noble friend.