HL Deb 20 November 1996 vol 575 cc1258-60

2.59 p.m.

Lord Montagu of Beaulieu asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, and if so when, they intend to introduce regulations covering the ownership and use of vehicles as minicabs.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, minicabs outside London are already regulated in a similar fashion to taxis. The Government are committed to introducing the necessary primary legislation for minicab licensing in London when parliamentary time permits.

Lord Montagu of Beaulieu

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply which will go some way towards alleviating the disappointment felt by many taxi and hire car organisations and people that the foreshadowed legislation was not in the Queen's Speech. Does my noble friend agree that compared with the approximately 16,000 black cabs in London, famously admired the world over for their reliability and knowledge, the 70,000 minicabs now operating pose a potential threat to personal and public safety? Does he agree that there is no time to be lost in regulating the situation?

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, I entirely understand the concern felt by my noble friend. I emphasise once again that the Government's commitment to legislate remains unchanged. I also agree with my noble friend that the black cabs in London do a marvellous job and help many noble Lords home.

However, we must not forget that minicabs provide a valuable service to the people of London. Many thousands of journeys are made every day without difficulty. I believe that that fact needs to be acknowledged, even though the Government accept the need for regulation.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister aware that that is a somewhat unsatisfactory response to a highly relevant and important Question? The black cab taxi drivers, rightly acknowledged by the noble Earl to be the finest in the world, feel themselves under great stress. The more dubious variety of minicabs are not competing fairly, they undercut savagely, yet they do not carry the overheads that the black cab taxi drivers are compelled by law to adopt.

Is it not true that, after so much consultation and discussion, an issue which would prove to be relatively uncontentious politically should be a matter of grave and immediate concern? The Government should already have legislated.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, I thought I had made clear to the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, that it is our intention to legislate as soon as parliamentary time permits—after the next election. We are committed to legislating on the issue. We envisage a licensing system for operators, drivers and cabs.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, will my noble friend take pains to erase from his brief that awful phrase "when parliamentary time permits"? It was designed by people other than himself in order to discourage. In that alone, it is successful.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, I shall take note of what my noble friend said.

The Earl of Winchilsea and Nottingham

My Lords, the Minister said that he would be willing to consider future legislation to bring minicabs under control. I do not know whether it would be helpful if that legislation could be discussed in collaboration with black cab organisations so that we could have a more balanced view.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, the noble Earl makes a good point. Yes, I am sure that all interested parties will be consulted in the matter.

Lord Burnham

My Lords, does not the chief problem with minicabs lie with insurance? It would be dealt with satisfactorily if minicab drivers' credentials in terms of insurance were examined.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, as to future legislation, licensing of minicabs outside London would ensure that the drivers are correctly licensed, that the cars are in a fit condition with the appropriate MOT certificate, if required, and that they are properly insured for the purpose.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that such rules as exist to control the worst practices of minicabs are being properly enforced? If he is, then most people outside this House certainly are not.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, many licensed minicab drivers outside London do a worthwhile job. There have been problems in the past with plying for hire by minicab drivers, as well as touting. That is one of the reasons why under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 touting for hire is illegal. That legislation has helped to reduce the problem at London mainline stations. We are aware that the problem still exists, but prosecutions have taken place and the situation at mainline stations has improved.