MEPs: Expenses (Hansard, 5 November 1996)

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, Members of the European Parliament may claim expenses that they incur in performance of their parliamentary duties as follows: general office costs; travel within their member state and to official meetings or conferences; subsistence costs while attending official meetings; and costs of employing secretaries or assistants.

§ Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer, but, in view of recent allegations made both on television and in the newspapers about the level of expenses paid to Members of the European Parliament, would the Government make the facts widely known in order to protect the reputations of representatives of the European Parliament and to clear up any misunderstanding?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, we do not favour trial by television or by any other form of media. However, if there is a problem, it should be investigated. I do not think that one should make any judgment until such an investigation has been carried out.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the definitive report in The Sunday Times which stated that one lady Member of the European Parliament had admitted that she had "made a profit"—that was the term used—of £45,000 per year out of travel on top of all the other money that she was allowed to draw? Bearing in mind that a large slice of that will 597 be paid for by the taxpayers of this country, does that not contrast with the tardy increase which has just been forced on your Lordships?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, I feel absolutely certain that the majority of Members of your Lordships' House would love to have the allowances given to Members of the European Parliament. I am aware of that article in The Sunday Times and, although we all know that one should not always believe what is written in the press, the President of the European Parliament has recognised that there is a problem with the allowance system. He announced on 24th October that he was launching a full review of that system. Today's Daily Telegraph notes that the Parliament's leaders will meet tomorrow to consider reforms. We welcome those steps to put the house in order.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the research which shows that each active Member of your Lordships' House costs the taxpayer about £50,000 per year; that each Member of the House of Commons costs the taxpayer about £450,000 per year; and that each Member of the European Parliament—for 60 days of rather doubtful work per annum—costs the taxpayer more than £1 million per year? Does my noble friend agree that that might be less unjustifiable if the European Parliament ever did anything useful?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, I refrain from commenting on the last point. However, when making these comparisons noble Lords should bear in mind that the costs of the European Parliament reflect rented buildings in Brussels, Luxembourg and Strasbourg and the costs of travel, translation and interpretation. By contrast, the Palace of Westminster is rent free. I believe that the costs of the French and German parliaments are on a par with those of the European Parliament.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that on 17th October last at precisely 7.30 p.m. ITV broadcast a programme entitled "Fat Cats" which incorporated a full examination, with the aid of cameras, of how various expenses were claimed and gave a broad indication of the result? Does the noble Lord agree that it would be helpful if a video tape were placed in the Library so that noble Lords could gather the contentions put forward? Is the noble Lord further aware that on 17th October, entirely by coincidence, the Treasury sent to Sub-Committee A of the Select Committee of your Lordships' House an indication that there was a gentleman's agreement between the European Parliament and the Council that they should not examine or amend each other's claims on European funds for administration? Does the noble Lord agree that we ought to know a little more about this matter before we proceed much further?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, a copy of the big story on 17th October, which was an ITV programme, has been placed in the Library. As far as concerns the allegations made in that programme, we take seriously 598 any suggestion of the improper use of public funds. We have been at the forefront of efforts to combat waste and fraud within the European Community.
To deal with the agreement between the European Parliament and the Council, a Council resolution in 1970, prior to the accession of the United Kingdom, provided that the European Parliament and the Council would not examine each other's budgets, although noble Lords will be aware that overall limits are set.

§ Lord Clark of Kempston
My Lords, in view of the inordinate costs of European Members, does the Minister agree that it would be logical for the Government to press the Commission to end the farce of having three locations for the European Parliament instead of one?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, the situation is far from ideal. However, the establishment in three different countries pre-dates the UK's accession. I believe that there is little prospect of securing the unanimous agreement of member states for a single site.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, for the sake of accuracy, can the noble Lord confirm that the agreement as to where the European Parliament sits is nothing at all to do with the Commission, and that it is the Commission's view that it would be much better if it sat in one place?

§ Lord Chesham
My Lords, yes.