Central Africa: Humanitarian Needs (Hansard, 22 May 1996)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, the situation is fragile. Rwanda is making progress, but the security situation in Burundi is deteriorating. Almost 2 million refugees remain in the region. Britain has committed more than £126 million to the region bilaterally and through the European Union since January 1993.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is now essential for members of the Security Council to assist responsible leaders in the region to find a durable regional solution covering the destabilising effect of the refugee camps in Zaire, the repatriation of refugees or viable alternatives, the pursuit and punishment of those responsible for killings, adequate resources for the administration of justice and proper resources for reconstruction? In the meantime, can the Minister tell us what the Government are able to do to support the OAU and the former President Nyerere in his important mediation efforts in Burundi?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord is right, it is a matter of considerable concern. We believe that the efforts of the former President Nyerere are extremely important and could be quite promising. With my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, I met former President Nyerere when he was here in 850 London and I shall meet him and former President Carter next Monday to try to find ways forward, to reach a solution which deals with the refugees, with the pursuit and punishment of those who are guilty of genocide, to help to bring about justice and to ensure that resources are available where they can be used.
The noble Lord is right; the problems need a durable solution. That is why we have been working not only with the persons mentioned but also with the European Union's special envoy, Aldo Ajello, and the Tanzanian Foreign Minister, Mr. Kikwete. The issue is on our agenda almost daily at present while we try to find a solution. However, no one should underestimate how difficult it is, with all the different parties within the tribes, and with so much conflict, sometimes stirred up from outside either Burundi or Rwanda.

§ The Lord Bishop of Durham
My Lords, can the Minister tell us what action the Government are taking to secure control of arms going into Burundi? We should bear in mind the appalling suffering to civilian populations and the extent to which the Hutu militia groups and the Tutsi-dominated army are creating havoc in that country.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, this is a very difficult issue. The arms that have been entering Burundi have been going through third countries, and we do not know their source. We have sought to help the United Nations over this matter. The OAU and the UN are seeking ways of using the deployment of OAU military observers so that they may help in trying to impede the process of arms supply from outside. We hope that other governments who may have influence on neighbouring countries but are so far not using that influence might be persuaded to do so. That would cut down the supply of arms to Burundi and the central African region.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, following my noble friend's supplementary question, will the Minister give the House more details about the progress of bringing to justice the instigators of the genocide in Rwanda? Would that not be an important step in bringing stability to the whole region?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord is right in one sense. However, this is a situation in which things are easier said than accomplished, as he already knows. This country has been one of the key contributors to United Nations human rights operations in the area. We have also helped with the question of training people to carry out the tribunals. Progress is gradually being made. The situation is such that many people do not understand that there can be an amnesty, but that they should go for the leaders who have perpetrated the troubles. While we shall continue to help in bringing about peace in this high priority sector, including justice and dealing with those who have been arrested, their own governments must also be determined to solve the problem. It cannot all be done by outsiders, however willing they may be.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, is it not the case that the economic condition of the countries immediately concerned is such that any effort to resettle refugees must be financed from outside? Secondly, will my noble friend tell the House whether the condition of the judicial systems in the countries concerned is such that they are able to deliver the retribution for which noble Lords opposite ask without some judicial input from outside?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right about the parlous financial state of the countries concerned. It is interesting that in the year since January 1995 donors committed over £550 million towards Rwanda's programme of reconciliation and reconstruction. Some of that money is going towards trying to improve the justice system.
One of the difficulties is that, in a country that has lost all its leading personnel, there is very grave difficulty in absorbing the funds and the training to put them into practice. As a result of the lack of human resources, some who have been assigned to help are having to do a very basic training job before much progress can be made. However, we keep at it. A good deal of sound effort is going on to try to improve the situation, bad as it is.

§ Lord Redesdale
My Lords, is the Minister aware that on 12th May 100 displaced Tutsi were massacred by Hutus in Zaire; and according to a report by Médecins sans Frontières a further 3,000 displaced Tutsi in Zaire are at immediate risk? Is the United Nations doing anything to evacuate the Tutsi who are at risk?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I do not think the evacuation of one group of Tutsi in Zaire to another area will necessarily solve the problem. The United Nations has looked into what happened in Masisi. The area is now predominantly Hutu; there is no reason why those Hutus should be pushing the Zairian Tutsi out of the area. Certainly at the moment there is real difficulty. The UNHCR has been trying to reach a resolution as to where the Zairian Tutsi should go. That has not yet been accepted by the Government of Rwanda. Until it is there will he something of a stalemate. All this is also affected by the attitude of the Government of Zaire. That government, whose citizens they are, have done absolutely nothing to calm the situation.

§ The Earl of Sandwich
My Lords, in the interests of UN effectiveness, which I know the Government hold dear to their heart, as do many noble Lords, does the Minister agree with the conclusion of the Joint Evaluation on Emergency Assistance to Rwanda that the Department of Humanitarian Affairs (DHA) needs to be strengthened and properly funded if the UN is to do its work properly?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the DHA would be able to do even more than it is trying to do now were it to be so funded. We have argued that case with Mr. Akashi; I did so personally at the end of March. I hope that the United Nations sees the value of this organisation. It was set up to bring together the skills of the other agencies, but also to fill the gaps that 852 were so evident in international crises from 1991 onwards. Yes, we do agree; but a way has to be found. As I said during our debate last week, that also means that those countries that are in arrears to the United Nations have to pay those arrears.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, in this sad and rather hopeless situation of tribal attrition, what on earth is the United Kingdom supposed to do, or what more can it do? What on earth is it supposed that the United Nations could conceivably do? How is it proposed that the problem can be ameliorated?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, my noble friend has a very real point. But if one improves conditions and teaches people who are willing to make peace how to progress from a situation which, two years ago, was simply a matter of blood-letting, one does see a learning process going on. We have certainly seen that among some of the leaders in Rwanda. In Burundi, where there are more than 13 different parties and incredibly difficult situations within the different tribes, we have not so far been able to make that progress. There is quite a large number of visitors going into Bujumbura to impress upon the government the importance of doing that. I shall be returning once more at the end of our summer Session here.

§ Lord Dubs
My Lords, a moment ago the Minister referred to some of the financial difficulties facing the DHA in Rwanda and Burundi. Is not the situation more critical than that? Will she comment on reports that all United Nations activities in the region are severely short of cash, to the point where many of the operations are in jeopardy?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, it is not only a question of money, as I sought to say in answer to another noble Lord a few moments ago. There is a need for resources; but the pledges that we and others have made would certainly be of more effect if the human resource development in the countries concerned were greatly improved. There is a terrible problem of people not being able to use the facilities that would be willingly given by the donor community. Part of it is a result of the psychological overhang from the terrible killings in Rwanda and the continuing killings in Burundi. The one thing we have to do is make good use of everything that we put there. That is exactly what Aldo Ajello and others are examining in their work on the ground, with the backing of the OAU, the EU and the UN agencies.

§ Viscount Waverley
My Lords, will the Minister congratulate the Government on opening a mission in Kigali addressing the concerns of both Rwanda and Burundi? But will she recognise that it is the element of fear that needs to be addressed and that a form of integration must be encouraged between all participants in the region?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the opening of a mission in Kigali followed on the British Liaison Office, which I set up in Kigali in 1994 in order to bring help to people there. I must warn the noble 853 Viscount that integration may sound a good thing, but it is not something that will happen either quickly or until a fair time has passed following the genocides of 1994 and all the other terrible happenings that have continued for so long in the region. That is why the Great Lakes conference that has been suggested, which we and our European partners wish to support, must examine not just peace and security, but stability over quite a long period. There needs to be planned action for quite a considerable time before people will even be prepared to live in the same village as those they know had a hand in perpetrating the atrocities of two years ago.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that her point about local human resources is extremely important? One of the problems must be the system of land tenure, which is very complex and can only be understood by the Hutu and Tutsi themselves. It is not easy to impose that from outside. Should not we recognise that there is a limit to the degree to which we can impose solutions?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I have never spoken of imposing solutions from outside. One of the things about which past President Nyerere is absolutely certain is that any imposition would probably worsen the current situation. My noble friend is absolutely right. There is the whole problem of land tenure and the tremendous competition for land. In both countries there are so many people per square kilometre of land that the pressure on land is worse there than it is certainly in any of the neighbouring countries. We can show the way; we will show the way. The Great Lakes conference, if it is properly prepared, could do a lot. But there has to be a willingness on the part of the leaders of the different communities in both countries, and indeed in Zaire too, to live peacefully side by side. Until that is there, I see little hope of putting an end to what is in fact a continuing tribal war.