Civil Service College (Hansard, 13 May 1996)

Earl Howe
My Lords, the recent review of the Civil Service College was designed to ensure that the college achieves its full potential for developing the best traditions and international reputation of the Civil Service. A wide range of options has been considered, including continuing in the public sector and partial or full transfer of ownership to the private sector. The Government have concluded that the college should proceed within the public sector to develop new activities in partnership with the private sector; and will ensure that the essential link between the Civil Service and the Civil Service College is preserved.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for that Answer, which marks a considerable step forward from the answers which my noble friend Lady Miller was allowed to give on a previous occasion. Will he be good enough to communicate to others the suggestion that talk of partnership with the private sector in such a context and of considering various options is the kind of vagueness which provokes curiosity and suspicion rather than understanding?

Earl Howe
My Lords, we aim to please and we aim in particular to please my noble friend. He mentioned partnerships. I cannot go into too much detail at the moment but I can outline the ideas that we are considering. Clearly the college must be run commercially in order to cover its costs. The use of the college by departments and agencies tends to be somewhat seasonal and therefore it makes sense to explore the scope for better utilisation. The college already has partnership arrangements with Cranfield 323 University and Manchester Business School. We wish to give that idea a boost in terms of both training and conference facilities.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, are we to congratulate Her Majesty's Government on obeying one of the basic principles of management; that when something is functioning quite well leave it alone?

Earl Howe
My Lords, I believe that that principle could equally be applied to your Lordships' House. The Government wish to ensure that senior managers in the Civil Service receive the best possible training consistent with the interests of the taxpayers. In achieving that aim, we also wish to develop the full potential of the college and to enhance its reputation both at home and overseas. I believe that our plans will enable us to do that.

§ Lord Bancroft
My Lords, may I echo the congratulations that have been bestowed on the Government for their decision in this case, as the Civil Service College is one of the main custodians and disseminators of professional public service values and should therefore self-evidently remain in the public service? Will the Minister comment on the hypothesis that this particular swallow might make a summer?

Earl Howe
My Lords, I do not need too much of a qualification to know to what the noble Lord is referring. I cannot give him further news about the subject of RAS, but I can say that the high reputation of the Civil Service College as a centre of excellence—and it is well regarded by its customers—will continue. It has full-time and contracted tutorial staff drawn from both the Civil Service and the private sector. The reputation that those people generate for the college speaks for itself.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, did the Minister say that it all depended on the college being commercially viable? Do the Government believe that every training establishment and college must be commercially viable in order to exist? Surely we cannot always look at such colleges commercially.

Earl Howe
My Lords, if the college does not cover its costs through charges to its customers, the taxpayers will not only bear the full costs but subsidise the college in competition with other providers of training. That cannot be right—

§ Baroness Hollis of Heigham
Of course it is.

Earl Howe
My Lords, no, that cannot be right when one of the key policies of government is to improve the competitiveness and efficiency of both the public and private sectors. In the end, the college will succeed or fail on how many customers it attracts. It is succeeding by attracting customers not only from this country but from overseas. We want to see that continue.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, I am sorry but I am getting a little lost and I wonder whether the Minister can help me. Is he saying that the college must make a profit in 324 order to stay in the public sector; and is he saying that it will remain in the public sector but that it will try to find people to occupy the bedrooms when classes are down and on holiday; or is he saying something slightly different from those two statements? Looking at the situation from this side of the House, with more than 300 Conservative hereditary peers taking the Conservative Whip, may I venture to express the hope that the Civil Service College will continue to function with perhaps a greater degree of fairness, equity, efficiency and speed than does your Lordships' House?

Earl Howe
My Lords, the key aim of our policy will be to construct a range of partnerships which will bring demonstrable benefits to both the college and potential private sector partners and at the same time bring in private sector expertise and finance as well as risk-sharing. Therefore, I believe that the second part of the noble Lord's first question reflects more accurately what we intend to do.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, will my noble friend show a little sympathy for the noble Lord, Lord Richard, who seems to have become rather lost in matters which are not in any way related to this Question?