HL Deb 11 March 1996 vol 570 cc616-8

2.53 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will make available to Parliament the report of the Coopers & Lybrand audit of the accounts of the European Court of Auditors; what is their view of its findings and what action they propose to take.

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, the report of the external auditors on the accounts of the Court of Auditors for the financial year 1994 was published in the Official Journal of the European Communities OJ C 298 dated 11th November 1995. A copy is available in the Library and the Government are content with these findings.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he will probably regret his endorsement of Coopers & Lybrand's audit report on the Court of Auditors because in Brussels at present there is very little talk of anything other than the gross extravagance which the Court of Auditors, which should be the guardians of expenditure, has incurred in the year in question and is likely to incur in 1996, with the approval of the Government? Will the Government give an undertaking that they will examine this matter a little further and thus avoid a rather more detailed ventilation of the matter, which they will surely get unless they do so?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, is putting far too much faith in a recent press article in the Observer. Perhaps I can recommend that he reads the Official Journal and the conclusion of the Coopers & Lybrand report which says: Our detailed examination, which was carried out in accordance with the approach described above, enables us to conclude that the reliability of the accounts was of a high standard; this was reflected in the fact that we proposed no corrections or amendments, [and] the information systems functioned in compliance with the rules of internal control as we understand them, … and as they are laid down in the aforesaid regulatory framework".

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that nobody is questioning the accuracy or reliability of the accounts that have been prepared? The question relates to what the accounts themselves truthfully disclose. Does the Minister agree that they disclose an extravagance which, in modem times, ought to be entirely denounced by a government that are bent on achieving the utmost economy in public expenditure?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, we are dedicated to achieving the utmost economy in public expenditure. I am a bit disappointed that the noble Lord has gone very quickly from the Court of Auditors being a collection of heroes when it comes to criticising other parts of the European budget, to today being, so to speak, the villains of the piece. I do not believe that the noble Lord's generalised remarks bear any resemblance to the actual truth. As I said in my answer, they are taken heavily from an article in the Observer. I commend the noble Lord not to believe everything that he reads in newspapers.

Lord Shaw of Northstead

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Government's efforts to increase the powers of the Court of Auditors have been fully justified?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, yes indeed, and my noble friend is quite right about that. The Court of Auditors undertakes a very important function, normally backed by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington. Its members have to do quite a bit of travelling as the money is spent and has to be checked in the member states and, in many cases, outside the European Union where we spend money as a community. That is right and proper. I believe that the Court of Auditors and its officials would be attacked if they did not go to the places where the money is spent to check the audit trail right through to the final user.

Lord Monkswell

My Lords, as I understand it, the Court of Auditors audits the expenditure of the European Union centrally. Coopers & Lybrand seems to have audited the Court of Auditors' accounts. Can the Minister say who audits Coopers & Lybrand's accounts?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, not me, anyway.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I take very much to heart his strictures on not believing everything one reads in the press? Under those circumstances, is it right for us to believe the reports we have seen in the press about the new ambassadorial service initiated by the EC, where it has representatives in various parts of the world posing as ambassadors and called "Your Excellency", which is costing about £100 million a year?

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, we have ranged a little wide of the Court of Auditors and the audit of its accounts by Coopers & Lybrand. The European Union is represented in many parts of the world and it is important that it should be, because it represents Europe collectively when it comes to important matters like trade.