London Underground Limited (Hansard, 13 June 1996)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen)
My Lords, we have no plans to privatise London Underground Ltd.

§ Lord Berkeley
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that definite reply. I have talked to London Underground, and it gives me great pleasure that it has had such excellent success with private investment in certain infrastructure projects on specific lines. Do the Government have any plans for widening the private sector involvement in the operation of certain lines? What proportion of London Underground's turnover is spent on privately contracted supplies and services?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the noble Lord is right to congratulate London Underground on the work it has done using the PFI. Some good partnerships have developed there. That partnership will be increased when the London Regional Transport Bill becomes law. It will widen the scope for PFIs in this field.

§ Lord Clark of Kempston
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Labour Party has consistently opposed any privatisation which has been carried out by the Government? Does he further agree that the privatisation programme that has been carried out has meant that instead of British taxpayers paying over £50 million per week in subsidy, British taxpayers are now receiving £50 million per week in taxation?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend on both counts.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, to come back to the London Underground, is the Minister satisfied that the current level of investment—that is, taking into account private sector involvement, funds generated by the Underground itself, and government contributions— is adequate for the needs of the Underground to enable it to become one of the leading Underground systems of any capital city in the world?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, yes, I believe that the levels of investment are appropriate. All transport infrastructure systems would like to see more investment, but it is worth noting that core investment 1830 in the Underground in the 1990s is twice as high in real terms as in the 1980s and three times higher than in the 1970s.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, for the benefit of the noble Lord, Lord Clark, I ask: is it not a fact that it is not just the Labour Party that is not in favour of the privatisation of London Underground, but, from the Minister's own reply, the Government? Is it true, as was reported in reliable newspapers, or sober newspapers at least, that the Deputy Prime Minister was urging the Government strongly to give a commitment to the privatisation of the London Underground while more restrained Conservatives— there are not too many of them, I suppose— believe that there are no votes in that for the Conservative Party so far as concerns London?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, our policies are designed to give Londoners the best transport system that can possibly be provided. That has always been our policy. My noble friend was drawing my attention, and that of the House, to the considerable achievements of privatisation in the transport sector— a subject which was fully covered last night.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, does the House agree that we, as Londoners, are fortunate to have someone like Denis Tunnicliffe running London Underground, because he has such a great understanding of transport in London and has done such a good job in expanding London transport; for example, with the new Jubilee Line extension?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, I join with my noble friend in congratulating the management of London Underground. It has done a good job, and I am sure that it will continue to do so.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, is my noble friend satisfied with the investment in the Piccadilly Line in view of the fact that those people who wish to catch an aeroplane at Heathrow now have to leave at least half an hour to an hour earlier in case no train comes along in the evening?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the Piccadilly Line is an interesting line. It provides a good service for those who use it, but of course we are always interested in new transport infrastructure developments. That is of course why there is the current project to provide a new line to Heathrow.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, as the Minister's noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Clark, chose to propagate the views that are currently contained in all Conservative Party propaganda sheets, does the Minister believe that a bit of balance should be brought into the issue, and does he recognise that there have been £22 billion in debt write-offs since the privatisation programme began? That is the taxpayers' money.

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, the balance comes from the fact that these days no serious commentators want to turn the clock back and return to the bad old 1831 days. They recognise the benefits which privatisation and private finance has brought to the transport system. They accept that and I believe that even the Labour Party has come to that view.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, as regards the Piccadilly Line, has any consideration been given to running non-stop express trains to Heathrow?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, Heathrow will be covered fully by the new express line which is being built. In the future, that will be the way to travel to Heathrow if you are in a hurry.

§ Lord Harmsworth
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Jubilee Line extension works, which some of your Lordships, including myself, had the privilege of visiting some two days ago and which are on time and largely within budget, are a tribute not only to British engineering but to the management of London Underground and fully justify confidence in London Underground, whatever form that is in?

§ Viscount Goschen
My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to the management of London Underground and to the considerable achievement of the Jubilee Line extension.