Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty: Progress (Hansard, 10 June 1996)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, we are working actively for a universal, effective and verifiable comprehensive test ban treaty (CTBT) by the end of June. We continue to play a leading role in the efforts to design an effective verification regime for the treaty.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the prospects for the treaty are rather more encouraging now? Does she share my view that credit is due to the chairman of the talks, Ambassador Ramaker of the Netherlands? As the treaty would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for non-nuclear signatories to acquire a nuclear capability, do the Government take the view that it is reasonable to expect that a reciprocal obligation to lessen their nuclear capability should also be imposed on the nuclear powers?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, first, I very much agree with the noble Lord about the efforts being made by Ambassador Ramaker to steer the negotiations towards consensus. That is, indeed, what he is doing. In particular, we welcome his recent initiative to table a clean draft treaty text which should concentrate minds in the closing stages of the negotiations. I agree with the noble Lord that there is 1485 now a very good chance of getting agreement by the end of June. But that still requires an active and positive approach by all countries concerned. As we well know, all negotiations require give and take. We shall continue to negotiate actively and responsibly.
As for what the noble Lord said about turning the comprehensive test ban treaty towards a disarmament treaty, I do not think that that would get us to the very necessary goal that we have set ourselves for this year. We want an indefinite end to all testing. That is what the CTBT does: it bans all nuclear weapons test explosions, however small, and all other nuclear explosions. However, I do not think that we can extend that into an exemption for other things. I believe that we should keep our goal and achieve it this autumn.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, will the Minister comment on the procedures for ratification of the treaty? Does she agree that it would be wrong to allow any one country effectively to veto its entry into force because of a failure to ratify it?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, obviously we want to have the treaty negotiated and ratified by all. I do not believe there is any danger that any one of the five nuclear powers or indeed the threshold states will seek to veto the treaty or not ratify it in that sense. Therefore, I believe that the noble Baroness is unduly anxious about the matter. I shall study what she said but it is not my understanding that ratification will be stopped once we have gained agreement.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House whether the Government intend to protest to China about its nuclear test last week and its threat to hold another one later this year?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, as we well know, on this issue we can protest a good deal. One notes that China has announced a moratorium which is to take effect after its final test in September. I hope this means that the Chinese will keep to that commitment. The Chinese have to demonstrate the commitment by being prepared to conclude negotiations by the end of this month and sign up with all other countries in the autumn. That is what we have been negotiating and aiming for. China has said that it is committed to the negotiations. We may protest, but I very much doubt whether it has any useful effect on the Chinese Government.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, does the Minister agree that any representations we may make to China are less effective because of our failure to condemn nuclear weapons tests by the French?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, it is clear that the Chinese work on exactly the same basis as the French. The Chinese will do so much testing and then stop. It is clear that neither the French nor the Chinese intend to go on testing at the end of this programme.