HL Deb 25 July 1996 vol 574 cc1528-30

11.35 a.m.

Lord Richard

My Lords, I trust that your Lordships will allow me to say a few words about some information that has only just been conveyed to me. I have in front of me what seems to be the text of a Written Answer from the noble Earl, Lord Howe, to a Question from the noble Lord, Lord Peyton. I do not know whether the noble Lord has yet seen the response, but it relates to the contracts which are being placed for defence equipment.

As I understand it, it was announced by way of Written Answer yesterday in the House of Commons that the total amount involved is to be £4 billion. However, I now have a copy of the Written Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, giving details of such contracts. It appears that the Government have decided to buy a Storm Shadow missile from British Aerospace; they are buying an advanced air-launched anti-armour weapon, Brimstone, from GEC Marconi Dynamics; and they are buying 21 Nimrod 2000 aircraft from British Aerospace.

Of course, they may be absolutely right decisions; I do not know. However, it seems to me that this is a major issue upon which Parliament ought to have had the opportunity at some stage to express a view. I am afraid that I have been protesting rather vehemently over the past few weeks about the way in which the Government are presenting business to the House. But if ever there was anything which should be dealt with by way of a Statement from the Dispatch Box rather than by way of a Written Answer surely, I must suggest to the Government, issues of this magnitude—especially given the composition of this House encompassing as it does people with immense expertise in such matters; indeed, far more than I—should be dealt with in that way.

The House has not yet adjourned. The House of Commons may be in Recess, but this House is not. Therefore, I do not see why the Government should not take the opportunity today—perhaps after the debate on the Recruitment and Assessment Services, or, if possible, before that debate—to make a Statement here in Parliament so that those who know more about the issue than I do can question the Government as to the rightness or wrongness of those particular decisions.

In fact, I should point out that we had a defence debate in this House as recently as 12th July. I really do not think that governments should announce contracts of this magnitude and importance to the Armed Forces and to the Crown by way of Written Answer in this House after the House of Commons has gone into Recess. As the noble Viscount the Leader of the House is present in the Chamber, I must ask him whether some time could be made available during the course of today so as to give us the opportunity to discuss the matter and, indeed, to question the Government.

I now understand that the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, has received his Written Answer. I am not quite sure how I got a copy of it; but, however I received it, I am grateful for having done so. Having had, so to speak, a taste of the feast in the Written Answer, I think this House ought to have an opportunity of scrutinising the menu with a little more particularity than it has so far.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, as my name has been mentioned and I have some part in this, I should say that I have long been a great admirer of the noble Lord, Lord Richard. At the same time, however, I am not at all sure that I should like to have him always as a filter between the sender of information to me and myself. However, in this matter I had no choice. Perhaps I may venture another comment. I have been aware of the interest of people in Somerset as regards these difficult problems which the Government have been facing. I think the noble Lord, Lord Richard, is a bit hard on the Government in condemning this letting-out of good news as soon as it was available. What is always a subject of complaint is when governments let out bad news by Written Answer at the end of a Session.

Lord Richard

My Lords, the noble Lord is being unfair to his filter. I am not suggesting for a moment that these are wrong decisions. We do not know that. I am not in a position to know that. It is not a field in which I have a great deal of expertise. I used to know a little about it many years ago when I was a junior Minister and my noble friend Lord Healey was Secretary of State for Defence. All I am saying is that these are big decisions which are taken by the Government. Parliament ought to have an opportunity to question the Government on those decisions in the usual way. I do not make that point in any great party sense; it just seems to me that this is the only sensible way for the Government to proceed.

The Lord Privy Seal (Viscount Cranborne)

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Richard, for his usual vigilance in these matters. I think I am right in saying that up until now the Government have not made a habit of making a Statement on anything except the biggest defence programmes. Trident, for instance, comes to mind. There is a clutch of orders here, decisions on which have been in the balance for some time, as the noble Lord knows. There has not only been the question of which defence systems are to be ordered, but also the timing of the announcement of the order.

There is no doubt at all in my mind that the fact that the decision has been made—and made as swiftly as possible—will be broadly welcomed, particularly in the defence community. If the noble Lord, Lord Richard, would like my noble friend Lord Howe to make a Statement later in the day, in the usual spirit of co-operation which animates our relationship I should be happy to suggest to my noble friend, who is sitting beside me on the Front Bench, that he should do so. I hope the noble Lord will also understand that as we have had no advance notice of his request, it would perhaps be more sensible if we waited until the end of the debate on the future of the RAS before my noble friend makes his Statement. I do not see too many noble and gallant Lords in the House at the moment. They might also want some advance notice that the Statement is to be made.

I am also well aware that this is the final day of the Session and a number of noble Lords may feel that there are other calls upon their time at such a late point in the Session. However, as always, I shall endeavour to make sure that my noble friend has some time at least to prepare a verbal Statement. However, I had hoped that the Written Answer he gave to my noble friend would have sufficed. But, as always, I am in the hands of the House.

Lord Jenkins of Hillhead

My Lords, I think that what the noble Viscount the Leader of the House has just proposed is satisfactory both as to substance and to timing. It is also a tribute to the vigilance of the noble Lord, Lord Richard.

Lord Richard

My Lords, it is not the vigilance of the filter; it is perhaps the essence of the coffee that is important in this case. I repeat that I am not sure how I got this information concerning the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, but I am grateful for having had it. I am grateful for what the noble Viscount the Leader of the House has said. Those arrangements are satisfactory. The House and Parliament ought to have an opportunity to scrutinise the matter. I repeat that I am obliged to the noble Viscount.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, is the Leader of the House saying that there will be a Statement, and if so, when?

Viscount Cranborne

My Lords, if I was even more elliptical than usual I apologise to the noble Lord. I understood that it was the will of the House that there should be a Statement. It is now for my noble friend to prepare himself for that ordeal. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Williams, will therefore allow him perhaps to make his Statement at the end of the debate which is about to begin.